Mary Matters (Dr. Walter Martin on disbelief in the Mother of God)

Catholic Exchange ^ | JULY 26, 2014 | Tim Staples

[Heart-Rest]

"Mat 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. by claiming that THAT verse was fulfilled by this verse: Mat 27:34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. And this one... Mar 15:23 And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not."

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No, it was fulfilled in this text:

After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfil the scripture), “I thirst.”  A bowl full of vinegar stood there; so they put a sponge full of the vinegar on hyssop and held it to his mouth.    When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, “It is finished”; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
John 19:28-30

Jesus was offered wine twice on the cross.    One time He rejected it, and one time He received it.    (See also Matthew 27:34 & Matthew 27:48.)

[Heart-Rest]

"The Bible also says that tombs were opened and many were raised from the dead...I'd kind of like to know what they looked like and where they all went..."
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That must have been pretty scary to look at!   :-)

Like Lazarus, they will be raised twice!

[Heart-Rest]

"Baloney. Catholics are the ones who do not go by what the Bible says. I think we have seen that proven on these threads."
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Right, and the democrats have proven that obama is a great president.

[boatbums]

Yes, you pointed out what I typed in your post post #1281, and you did not offer to take that bet. Are you offering to take that wager now based on what I typed?

What's the point? The cat's already out of the bag since you admitted:

There is absolutely no evidence at all, one way or the other. The Bible is silent as to where the other Apostles were during the crucifixion, and all that anyone can do today concerning that question is to speculate.

You can still make that contribution though. ☺

[Heart-Rest]

Did you look at post 1281?

[boatbums]

Now you're just fabricating things! These weren't perverted forms of the Bible.

Yeah, they were...there were NO OTHER CHRISTIANS THERE...the reformation didn't take place for another 300 years...

You're right, 2nd amendment mama, TC has a tendency to fabricate a great many things WRT Roman Catholicism. The biblical manuscripts were translated in quite a few different languages until the RCC declared ONLY the Latin Vulgate was officially sanctioned and any copies found, confiscated or turned in that were not the Latin version were burned - many times their owners burned along with them with the pages used as kindling. As TC should know, the Eastern Orthodox were Christians-not-Roman-Catholic and many others also existed that did not bow the knee to the Pope of Rome.

What Catholicism uses to justify their destruction of so many Bible manuscripts - the "perverted" forms - is that they really mean Bibles that may have had footnotes in them that sometimes contradicted something Catholicism taught erroneously. Several non-Latin translated Bibles were directly from the Hebrew and Greek languages and far out-shined the tedious and insufficient Latin version. Some passages in the Vulgate (the official Latin version) were themselves corruptions of the original languages and had to be corrected in subsequent versions. One such corruption that is in the Vulgate's translation of Genesis 3:15 where they have God telling Satan that the "woman" (meaning Mary, in RCC eyes) would crush his head and he would bruise "her" heal. The actual Hebrew doesn't say that. There are others such as "do penance" instead of "repentance", "justice" instead of "righteousness" that show up in the Catholic English language Bibles that came from the Latin Vulgate instead of Hebrew and Greek.

So, the Bibles that existed back then were preferable because they were in the languages people spoke, wrote and read and not only the Latin the upper classes knew. What the Reformation succeeded in doing was making the Bible more available to the people in the languages they knew and with the invention of the printing press Bible copies became easier and cheaper to produce and literacy rates exploded. The Roman Catholic church could no longer prevent the Bible from getting into the hands of anyone who wanted one. That is how I believe God intends for His sacred word to be known to all.

[boatbums]

The office of the Pope has existed for 2,015 years and 30 days so their average isn't that bad.

LOLOLOL!!! How funny...you're getting down to the exact number of days this nonexistent early Papacy has been around? You know your calculation is off by at least several centuries, right??? Even IF Peter started the line of Popes of Rome (and he didn't), you're off by nearly five decades. At least admit that, won't you?

[boatbums]

The Bible also says that tombs were opened and many were raised from the dead...I'd kind of like to know what they looked like and where they all went...

What??? You mean the Roman Catholic church doesn't tell you what to believe about that?

[boatbums]

Of course, which was why I said what I did. You already knew the answer to your challenge and rigged the bet.

[Elsie]

What are you trying to say?

It appears that you’ve stumped me!

[Elsie]

COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; unless anyone from motive of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.

Ya just gotta LOVE the GUILTY!!! until proven innocent part!!!

...he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion.”

[Elsie]

“...they have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.”

—Jesus

[Elsie]

You are right....in the middle ages there were perverted forms of the Bible or renditions of portions of it which the church rightly condemned.

So true.

Too bad your CHOSEN RELIGION did not mention them specifically in the 'canon'.

[Elsie]

Remember, in those days the church was the ONLY protector of the Christian Bible and they became VERY testy when heretics challenged their authority.

Solomon is proven right again:

There's nothing new under the sun.

[Elsie]

I don’t understand why people keep denying it.

It's that old Exodus thing.

De Nile plays a VERY big part in their experience.

[Elsie]

The opening of the chapter is explaining which days the east gate will be shut or opened.

Revelation 21:22-25

 

²² I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. ²³ The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. ²⁴ The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. ²⁵ On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

[Elsie]

The Bible is silent as to where the other Apostles were during the crucifixion, and all that anyone can do today concerning that question is to speculate.

And SPECULATION is what Rome seems to have perfected.

Similar to finding the Right to an Abortion in the PENUMBRA of the Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griswold_v._Connecticut

[CynicalBear]

>>They feared that peopple were being led away from Christianity toward pagan or otherwise errant beliefs.<<

Now that's funny right there I don't care who ya are. A pagan organization worried about people led away to pagan beliefs.

[Elsie]

And who are the"false teachers"?

PROTESTANTS!!!

Sorry; but PROTESTants didn't come along until 1600 years or so later.

You guys want ALL Christians until that time to be 'catholic'; well; you got 'em!

YOU guys are the false teachers!

You Catholics created and ruined the seven churches in Asia!!

ROME will account for IT's teachings that are NOT found in the Bible!!!

[Elsie]

You guys want ALL Christians until that time to be 'catholic'; well; you got 'em!

SEE??

Yeah, they were...there were NO OTHER CHRISTIANS THERE...the reformation didn't take place for another 300 years...