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To: Grateful2God
>>The parents though, have the right to speak to their children in ways intrinsic to their authority; when the children argue amongst themselves, does the parent not intervene and have the final say?<<

And therein lies a distinct difference between those who put their faith in Christ alone and those who put their faith in the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that "parent" is the Catholic Church. They tell us again and again that the Catholic Church is their mother. Those who trust in Christ alone know that the "parent" is God alone and look to His word and the indwelt Holy Spirit for that guidance and correction. It is God who has that final say.

>>Would he not encourage peace among his children?<<

And He does. But those who refuse to adhere to His word alone but rely on the word of man are either not His children or have yet to submit themselves to His guidance and correction.

>>Those differences can be discussed as people who love God: a common thread between us that supersedes our differences, and should permeate all our discussions.<<

I agree wholeheartedly. That can only be accomplished by those who have submitted themselves to God alone without the insertion of some person or entity between themselves and God. The Catholic Church would like people to think they are the "pillar and foundation of truth" but let's look at the Greek order of the words in that passage.

1 Timothy 3:15 If moreover I should delay that you might know how it behoves one in the household of God to conduct oneself which is the ekklesia of God the living pillar and base of the truth.

The word "ekklesia" in the Greek refers to "those called out" or "an assembly of those called out". That word is used for assemblies of community leaders who have been "called out" of the community to assemble for some purpose. It is also used for those who have been "called out" by God as His chosen people. Those "called out" of the world if you will.

With that in mind look at that the verse above again. It's God who is the pillar and base of truth. Now you might read in many Bibles the term "foundation of truth" but that is NOT what the Greek says. the Greek word for "foundation" is θεμέλιος or transliterated "themelios". That is NOT the word used in the verse above concerning the ekklesia (church). It is used in Ephesians 2:20 where it says the apostles are the foundation.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.

So you can see that there is a terrible misunderstanding of who that "pillar and base of truth" is. It's not some "church". It's God Himself with Christ as the cornerstone. The foundation of the ekklesia is the apostles who were the first chosen by Christ to begin the building of His called out ones. There is no "church" that has been given the task of being the "pillar and foundation" of truth. It is no "church" that is the "mother of us all". Our "parent" is our Father in heaven who gave us His word in scripture. It is He who has "the final say".

>>When I speak of unity among Christians, I don't believe that means that we must belong to one church, or any church, if one chooses.<<

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, there is a tendency for those who "belong to one church" to put that church in the place of God who they go to for truth. It is that "church" that they go to for truth rather than God. "Christians" are those who follow Christ alone with no arbiter between themselves and God. It is the Holy Spirit (God) who is our counsellor and teacher. We can have those who point out the truths of scripture to us but as Paul said, we had better "search the scriptures daily to see if what they say is true".

418 posted on 02/01/2015 6:36:15 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear
Hi! Thank you for your answer, and pardon me if it takes me awhile to reply.

I made myself a bit unclear. I'm not as articulate as some; please excuse me! When I metaphorically referred to a family, I meant God as the father/parent having the authority over his children, that is, all of us; and that the children do not have authority over one another as peers. I did not refer to the Catholic Church, as I wished to be inclusive of all of us.

What we believe as Catholics is that God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit do have the final word. As you believe that one can interpret individually with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we believe our Church heirarchy has the same capacity to receive that Guidance.

As the father is to a family, so is God to us. As a mother is often the one at home, taking care of the children, instructing them, but with the father still head of the household. Thus the Church is often referred to as Mother. Mater et Magistra, (Mother and Teacher) is the name of an encyclical of Pope St. John XXIII as well.

I'll reply to the next part as soon as I can. My eyes need a rest right now. Thank you for your thorough and courteous answer!

God bless you!

419 posted on 02/01/2015 7:04:26 PM PST by Grateful2God (That those from diverse religious traditions and all people of good will may work together for peace)
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