Sola Historia?

His by Grace ^ | 2/9/2015 | Timothy G. Enloe

[RnMomof7]

Rebutting the "Historical" Argument for the Roman Catholic Church

By Timothy G. Enloe

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     Perhaps the most important aspect of the continuing controversies between Protestants and Catholics is the area of epistemology, or how we human beings know things--in this case, how we know divine truth.  The question "How do you know?" is central to the Catholic polemic as it is presented to Protestants by some of the former's ablest contemporary defenders. ¹  Unfortunately, these apologists not only commit a fundamental error in the target they direct this attack against, but they also miss a fatal flaw in their own logic.

     The first mistake lies in the confusion of modern "evangelical" Christianity--almost universally identified by Catholic apologists as "fundamentalism"--with the Protestant Reformation of the sixteenth century.  Many Catholic apologists have honed to near perfection the technique of blasting to smithereens the anti-creedal, anti-historical, anti-intellectual positions of "Bible-Only" fundamentalists.  By focusing their attention on the "no creed but Christ" foolishness of the latter and wrongly equating it with the classical Protestant formal principle of Sola Scriptura, they attempt to expose what they believe to be a glaring inconsistency in something they rather generically call "the Protestant view". ²  

     After discarding this caricature as hopelessly false, the defenders of Rome then attempt to establish the authority of their Church by building a step-by-step inductive argument, or more simply stated, by gratuitously piling up "historical" facts as if such can stand on their own outside of their basic interpretive framework.   In so doing, they ironically end up exposing a basic  inconsistency in their own apologetic!  This inconsistency appears when the Catholic principle of how humans know divine truth meets its Protestant opponent on the field of historical battle.  Let us try to follow their reasoning.

The Bible--"Just Another Ancient Book"?

          The argument usually begins by admitting up front that it is not going to treat the Scriptures as if they are divinely inspired, but merely as legitimate historical documents.  It then proceeds to build a chain of "purely" historical evidence--passages of Scripture, quotations from early Christians and Councils, etc--which is supposed to show that Christ instituted a Church with certain properties, properties which are today found only in the Roman ecclesiastical hierarchy.  

     In a debate on Sola Scriptura with Patrick Madrid (then of Catholic Answers), James White asked Madrid how he could know that the Roman Church is the one true Church.  Madrid responded as follows:

This is how I know, Mr. White. I can look independent of what I see in Scripture. In fact, I'm not going to even treat Scripture as an inspired document for the moment, just for the sake of argument. I'm going to look at whether or not a man named Jesus Christ lived. Can I prove that historically? Yes. Can I prove that Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead and appeared to many people who as eyewitnesses claimed that He died and rose from the dead? I can prove that. In two minutes I can't prove it for your satisfaction, but I think we would all agree that those things are true. I can demonstrate through non-Christian, unbiased sources, in fact sometimes actually biased against the Christian position, that Jesus Christ instituted a church. We can look at the writings of these early Christians, not only the apostles but also the men and women in the post-apostolic era. I can look at the Scripture and see what, independent of whether or not I believe it is inspired, I can look and see a description of the church that Jesus established. All of you know the verse in Matthew 16 verse 18, "On this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." Mr. White and I would argue all night long over what the rock is, but the fact is Jesus established a church. The next point is that as I look at Scripture I see that the church is described as having certain functions, certain attributes, certain characteristics, certain jobs that it has to perform, and I can compare and find out, well, historically, yes, I can show that that was done, through the writing of the Scriptures. So if I believe that Jesus is God, and I believe that His promise is true that He founded a church, then I have to say, this is the next step, I have to say, does that church, is there a church today which fits that description which is doing all the things that Jesus said. If that's true, if I can find that, and I have, by the way, it's the Catholic Church, then I know that what is described here in this book is the same church that I see today. So when that church tells me, Jesus said in Luke 10:16, "He who listens to you listens to Me, he who refuses to hear you refuses to hear Me," when I hear that Church speak I know that it is Jesus speaking through the church.

     Notice that Madrid's argument follows the familiar evidentialist pattern of much of "evangelical" Protestantism, though it is used by him not to establish the authority of the Bible, but of the Roman Church ³ --a fact which reveals that there are two competing ultimate authorities in the debate: Sola Scriptura and the Catholic Magisterium.  It is then marshalled against a caricature of the Protestant position--which, it is said, amounts to believing the Bible is inspired simply "because it says it is". ²   I quote Madrid again, from his essay "Sola Scriptura: A Blueprint for Anarchy":

Another problem for Sola Scriptura is the canon of the New Testament.  "There's no inspired table of contents" in Scripture that tells us which books belong and which ones don't.  That information comes to us from outside Scripture.  Our knowledge of which books comprise the canon of the New Testament must be infallible; if not, there's no way to know for sure if the books we regard as inspired really are inspired.  it must be binding; otherwise folks would be free to have their own customized canon containing those books they take a fancy to and lacking the ones they don't.  And it must be a part of divine revelation; if it's not it's merely a tradition of men, and if that were so, Protestants would be forced into the intolerable position of championing a canon of purely human origin.

    The Catholic doesn't have this problem, claim Madrid and the others, because he has an external authority--the Church--to tell him that the Bible is inspired and which books are contained in it.   Madrid continues:

Sola Scriptura becomes "canon" fodder as soon as the Catholic asks the Protestant to explain how the books of the Bible got into the Bible.  Under the Sola Scriptura rubric, Scripture exists in an absolute epistemological vaccuum, since it and the veracity of its contents "dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church." [quoting the Westminster Confession of Faith].  If that's true, how then can anyone know with certitude what belongs in Scripture in the first place?  The answer is, you can't.  Without recognizing the trustworthiness of the Magisterium, endowed with Christ's own teaching authority (c.f., Matt. 16:18-19; 18:18; Luke 10:16) guided by the Holy Spirit (John 14:25-26; 16:13), and the living apostolic Tradition of the Church (1 Cor. 11:1; 2 Thess. 2:15, 2 Timothy 2:2), there is no way to know for certain which books belong in Scripture and which do not.  As soon as Protestants begin to appeal to the canons drawn up by this or that Father, or this or that council, they immediately concede defeat, since they are forced to appeal to the very "testimony of man and Church" that they claim not to need.

     The problem with this line of reasoning should be manifestly obvious.  Notice the numerous Scriptural references Madrid cites as part of his proof that we need the Church to tell us what the Scriptures are.  Since he has already told us that no one (particularly Protestants, of course) can know the Scriptures apart from the witness of the Church, how then can he cite these passages of Scripture as part of his "proof" for how he knows those Scriptures in the first place?

     The problem is particularly acute when we examine the central passage of Scripture Madrid cited--Matthew 16:18-19.  These verses supposedly imply that the Church will be infallible (so that the gates of Hades will not prevail against it).  But on the Catholic premise that the infallible witness of the institutional body of bishops is necessary in order for one to "know for sure" that the book of Matthew is legitimate while, say, the Gospel of Thomas is not, how can the book of Matthew be used as part of a "proof" of the existence of that infallible body of bishops?   Thus, the Roman apologist uses Scripture to support his claims about the infallible Church and then inconsistently asserts that no one can know what Scripture is until the infallible Church tells him so!  

     These facts show us that despite the assertion that the authority of the Roman Church can be "proven" by the use of the New Testament records "merely" as legitimate historical records, exactly the opposite is occurring.  Madrid and all Catholic apologists who use this type of argument are tacitly assuming from the get-go that they "know for sure" what books are trustworthy historical records, nay, even infallible historical records!   On what basis do they reject the numerous heretical writings, many of which also claim to be presenting the "catholic" (universal) faith? 

Those Marvelous, Unbiased, Infallible Catholic Historians

     But the problems don't stop with this disingenous use of Scripture.⁴  Catholic apologists treat all of Church history with the same question-begging, "neutral" evidentialism.  I will not even attempt to get into detailed refutations of Catholic historical points as historical points.  Such is beyond the limited scope of this essay, and at any rate, has been done by others far better than I ever could. ⁵   My focus is on the inconsistent epistemology that is used by the Catholic apologists.

     If we were to take the principle that such apologists apply exclusively against Sola Scriptura and make it into a general principle, it would be this: infallible external confirmation is a prerequisite for any claim to "know for sure" that a chosen ultimate authority is the correct one.  Very well.  If this principle is true, we should rightly expect Catholics to jump at the chance to show us such an infallible external proof for their Church, especially if they are going to parade through the town square proclaiming that Sola Scriptura is invalid because it has no infallible external proof.  It seems obvious that if the identity and supreme authority of Scripture must be "proven" by means of an infallible external authority, then so must the identity and supreme authority of "the Catholic Church".

     Oddly, this challenge goes unanswered.  Though Catholic apologists often like to point out that even heretics quote the Bible in support of their errors, I have yet to find even one Catholic apologist who honestly attempts to grapple with the fact that many heretics (both past and present) also claim to be "the Catholic Church". ⁶   With tongue in cheek, I must ask these apologists how they can "know for sure" that the particular organization they are defending is the real "Catholic Church".   How do they "know for sure" that the Protestant Reformers--or for that matter, the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses--weren't right after all?  

     Never ones to follow the supposedly Mormon-esque "I know its true because I feel it in my heart" tactic they wrongly attribute to classical Protestants, these heroically "objective" warriors tell us they have an answer to our query.  They ask us to wait patiently while they zealously weld into place beam after beam of historical data, following a blueprint only they can see.  Soon, they point proudly to the veritable skyscraper they have built, and note with triumph that its shadow overwhelms the pitiful shack of Protestant "novelties" that were seemingly spun from whole cloth barely five centuries ago.

     Unfortunately for them, this massive edifice of historical trivia turns out to be utterly useless as a "proof".  This is so because the very apologists who are compiling the evidence are not themselves infallible, and so, on their own criterion of knowledge, they cannot really "know for sure" that they are dealing with history fairly.  How do they "know for sure" that they have not left some relevant historical facts out of the picture, or allowed their own peculiar biases to warp their reading of history, or perhaps even that the "historical" sources they are drawing upon are not clever frauds which have simply not been detected yet? ⁷ 

     All these questions reveal that the use of historical evidences as a ground of faith in the trustworthiness of the Roman institution is a well-meaning, but nevertheless misguided tactic.  Such evidences do have their place--as warrants, or supports, of the trust these Catholics already had in their Church (although they can still be challenged by Protestants).  But if, as the Roman defenders tell us, the warrants for our faith must be infallible, these warrants can never serve as the foundations, since they, like the apologists who adduce them, are fallible.  

     If one still doubts the validity of my reasoning here, just ask why, if the historical skyscraper produced by Catholic apologists is really so incredible, really so "obvious", why does it not convince Protestants like James White, who is at least as well-informed about Church history as Patrick Madrid?  And why can a James White or a William Webster produce similar skyscrapers that appear "obvious" to Protestants but not to Catholics?  One begins to suspect that it is just not enough to say one's faith is true because it is "historical". 

          

Conclusion

     The claim that the identity and supreme authority of the Roman Catholic institutional Church can be established to be true solely by the use of non-inspired historical writings (which include those writings known as "the Bible") is false for two reasons.

     First, it tacitly assumes the very thing that it is supposed to be proving.  Both Catholics and Protestants take the Scriptures as reliable sources of information about God even if any given individuals in either camp cannot produce external supports for it.  Protestants at least admit that this is what they are doing.  Catholics, on the other hand (particularly the apologists), propose to treat Scripture "only as a historical document", which they then use to build up the authority of their Church.  But in so doing, they ignore the fact that they are assuming that they "know" what books constitute "Scripture"--the very thing they deny that can be done apart from their Church!  

     Second, the claim that the identity and supreme authority of the Roman Catholic institutional Church can be established to be true solely by the use of non-inspired historical writings neglects to factor into its equation the fact that historical arguments are by their nature fallible, since they are constructed by fallible people who can never know all the facts and their inter-relationships with perfect clarity.

          Thus, the apologetic tactic used by many Roman Catholic apologists today actually undermines the very "certainty of faith" it is supposed to safeguard.   The Catholic tells the Protestant that he cannot know that Scripture is trustworthy since he doesn't have an infallible Church to vouchsafe the canon to him--that he has only a "fallible collection of infallible books".   But the Protestant need not be nervous about admitting the truth of the last phrase, for he is still in a better epistemological position!  He can simply reverse the argument and point out that the Catholic cannot know that Rome is the true Church, since all he has is "a fallible collection of (possibly false) historical trivia".     

     Hence, like the fundamentalists they so vehemently oppose, the argument of today's Catholic apologists rests in what one of their number, Patrick Madrid, termed "an absolute epistemological vaccuum".  The irony is too delicious to ignore.

[CynicalBear]

>>I’m trying to get you to want to receive the Sacraments.<<

The pagan rituals of the Catholic Church are only that. Pagan rituals.

>>It is our job for everyone to get to Heaven.<<

How absolutely arrogant. It is NOT your job to get anyone to heaven. To think so is blasphemy.

1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.

>>My intentions are good ones only.<<

You may think your intentions are good but if the foundation of your "good intentions" is the teaching of the Catholic Church, "good" is not how I would describe them. There is very little "good" about what the Catholic Church teaches. Most of it's teaching, practices, vestments, and rituals are not based in scripture but in paganism. They readily admit they incorporate pagan beliefs and practices. Following their beliefs and practices will only lead to destruction.

[CynicalBear]

How is it that after having been answered multiple times with scripture you continue to ask the same questions?

[ealgeone]

Just so we keep things in context...something catholicism is reluctant to do.

STA from post #364:>If you serve and honor Mary, i.e., live a life of utmost sanctity, then certainly you will find eternal life.<

ISCOOL: Sure will...An eternal life in hell...

FROM POST 173 If you serve and honor Mary, i.e., live a life of utmost sanctity, then certainly you will find eternal life.

ME from post 373 : This is the result one gets when one follows and advocates a false doctrine.

ME: There is nothing to support this in the Bible. Nothing.

FROM POST 376

ME: There is nothing to support this in the BIble. Nothing.

YOU: Where did Christ establish a Bible?

YOU: Where did Christ tell His believers that his Church would be based on a book?

BEGIN NEW POST HERE

Again, this comes back to catholicism will not deny the false teaching they espouse on Mary. Any time someone points this out and calls them on it it's a guaranteed change of subject.

[boatbums]

You're absolutely right....none of those things are covered under the false teaching of sola scriptura....but they are all factual.

Then why in your Catechism do you have the facade of trying to use Scripture to verify those things???

[hockeyCEO]

You miss the tense.

The prefex κε is in the perfect tense — meaning the action has been completed in the past with its results continuing in full effect. The prefect tense carries with it a sense of fullness or completion.

There are other examples of the perfect tense in Scripture:

Ephesians 2:8 τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως: καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν, θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον "For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God" The word 'saved,' σεσῳσμένοι, is perfect tense. The 'saved' continues on in full effect. Martin Luther got this one right "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God"

Matthew 4:7 ἔφη αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς, πάλιν γέγραπται, οὐκ ἐκπειράσεις κύριον τὸν θεόν σου "Jesus said to him: It is written again: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" The word 'written' γέγραπται, is in the perfect tense also. KJV "Jesuss said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God"

So Martin Luther, leader of the Protestants, is 2 out of 3 (67%). Pretty typical.

[CynicalBear]

>>The prefex κε is in the perfect tense — meaning the action has been completed in the past with its results continuing in full effect.<<

I unloaded that load of corn perfectly and it's still perfectly unloaded and will remain so. The affect of my unloading continues to this day and will forever. The full effect of that unloading was that the load was put in the bin. The 1000bu bin is still not full.

>>The prefect tense carries with it a sense of fullness or completion.<<

The unloading of that wagon was fully completed.

Now, you still need to give me letter by letter to show me where "full" is included. Until you can this conversation is over.

[boatbums]

in that "the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner."

Does anyone else see the contradiction here where they claim Christ is "offered in an unbloody manner" but the Eucharist is said to literally be the body and blood of Christ???

[boatbums]

Where did Christ establish a Bible? Where did Christ tell His believers that his Church would be based on a book?

Did Jesus not give us this truth by His own example and what the Holy Spirit continued to reveal to His disciples?

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isaiah 8:20)

But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. (Matt. 22:29)

For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. (Romans 15:4)

[Iscool]

Buy a copy of Raymond Murphy’s ”English Grammar in Use”

Buy everything and anything, except a Bible...

[metmom]

Does anyone else see the contradiction here where they claim Christ is "offered in an unbloody manner" but the Eucharist is said to literally be the body and blood of Christ???

Yes, but then again, I'm not Catholic anymore, so that probably explains it.

[Iscool]

Does anyone else see the contradiction here where they claim Christ is "offered in an unbloody manner" but the Eucharist is said to literally be the body and blood of Christ???

Their entire religion is a contradiction to scripture, and to God...They don't believe in being born again...They know nothing of the new birth...

Their religion is completely philosophical built on the wisdom of man and not the wisdom of God...It is pagan in nature and practice...

They don't learn scripture...They don't know scripture...They can't discuss scripture...Scripture clearly is insignificant to them...

Like their phoney Eucharist...There's no blood...There's no cross...Eating a wafer is a, what do they call it, re-presentation of the sacrifice of Jesus that they offer to the Father...??? One of the most unbiblical things I've ever heard...

Calling a sinful man Holy Father??? Their entire religion is a mockery of Jesus and his church...

[hockeyCEO]

The angel Gabriel is referred to as ‘he’, not it.

Angels have refused to serve God. Their leader’s name is Lucifer. Gabriel was not one of them.

[hockeyCEO]

“they are the ones who wrote scripture” If you mean the New Testament authors, who must be all Catholic since there was only one Church, then yes.

“we should all thank them” I do not, thanks.

“Catholics claiming they are the only church” no, not the only church, but the only one started by Jesus.

“denouncing anyone who doesn’t belong to that organization is not saved” not entirely true. If you really are interest, see LUMEN GENTIUM paragraph numbers 14, 15, and 16.

[hockeyCEO]

"The pagan rituals of the Catholic Church are only that. Pagan rituals."

Yes, Jesus the pagan:
"And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. [27] And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. [28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins." Matthew 26:26

"When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained." John 20:22-23

You forgot St. Paul the pagan:
"The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?" Corinthians 10:16

Here is the Protestant mantra: "Jesus only means what He says when I say so." Right? Everyone has their own interpretation, right? Let's have 40,000+ Churches, each with its own beliefs. A-OK Remind me, what passage has Jesus handing out Bibles?

[CynicalBear]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Been there done that. Catch up on the last several years will ya.

[CynicalBear]

>>Here is the Protestant mantra: "Jesus only means what He says when I say so." Right? Everyone has their own interpretation, right?<<

See here then we will talk. Surely you wouldn't want to be thought hypocrites would you?

[terycarl]

It's EASY! All I have to do is cut and paste from Scripture which the Catholic church provided for us...

[terycarl]

They said mortal sin. Maybe they were in error, It's one or the other; isn't it!!

Doesn't work that way The mortal sin was denying that the Catholic church had the authority to make the rule and you affirmed that denial by disobeying the rule. Protestants get along just fine with artificial contraception. The catholic church has a rule against it and it is a sin for a Cathokic to use it. Eating meat was a pretty harmless thing to do....useing a condom is pretty much a harmless thing to do

The evil isn't in the act itself but in denying the authority to make the rule.

Protestants aren't really bothered by divorce and remarriage even though we all recognize it as adultry...does your new 1933 sect O.K. that too???

[terycarl]

Nope, if you listened real carefully you would have understood that the act of eating meat on Friday was a pretty neutral act....however, denying that the Church had the authority to bind a certain act as sinful was the sin.

What a non-answer if ever I saw one.

Yeah, but a correct one....closer attention in religion class would have helped you a lot.....The abstinance rule was actually a local type rule and did not apply to the entire Catholic church.

[terycarl]

So tell us, since other organizations call themselves the one true church as well, how is someone to know which one really is?

The Catholic church is because we are discussing Christianity here....not man made inventions like mormans. They are indeed the one true church in whatever religion they profess and it isn't Christianity.....simple!!