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To: pastorbillrandles; LearsFool

By removing rules (like a scoreboard showing points) that result in a winner, and saying that even those present at an event are ‘winners’, and should receive a trophy as well, is not unlike the disregarding of many of the Lord’s words concerning conversion, and then saying that everyone that has a simple belief (though not in belief as the Lord commands) is saved. The intent of preaching salvation in Jesus Christ, but being selective in his words, such as preaching John 3:16 (great verse, but a summation), and ignoring his detailed command of being born again, is being like:

Ahimaaz: a messenger not called (or at least not fully prepared) for the job of delivering the message (2Sam. 18:19-32). Or like Apollos, who was mighty in the scriptures, but needed a couple of lowly tentmakers to expound “the way of God more perfectly” (Acts 18:26).

Or NOT being like King Josiah: Who, when he was presented the fulness of God’s will, promptly took action to correct the words of God that had been overlooked.

The preaching of salvation to the lost exclusively out of Romans (or even other epistles) still regularly overlooks the context: Paul was writing to those that already had been born again, or at least knew how to be.

As a Calvinist, I was instructed by the ‘Ahimaaz’ testamony for my first 28 years, with steady diet of Acts 16:31, and Romans 10:9,13. But......when my personal ‘Josiah/Apollos’ moment came, I had to hear and obey the ‘missing link’ of biblical rebirth (Acts 2:38).

Is it not right to believe on the Lord as HE instructs us to believe on him? He gives very explicit instructions in being born again, beginning with John 3:5-8. Then, at the end of the Gospels, we read his words of commission to his apostles.

Matt. 28:19; the Lord commanded that THEY baptize souls.
Mark 16:16; The Lord commanded to his disciples that one must believe and be baptized.
Luke 24:47; The Lord commanded that repentance and remission of sins are to be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
John 20:23; The Lord commanded that whose soever sins YE remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained.

Then following those commands, the apostles preached Jesus Christ, commanding repentance, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Jesus has made it quite clear that if you want his blood on you, you must be ‘buried’ in his name.

In Acts 2:37 (Jews) we find convicted souls asking, “what shall we do?”

The ‘wide way’ answer seems to be, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved”. But no details, such as HOW to believe, contrary to what the Lord and his apostles specifically commanded.

2:38; “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”. (note the position of the commas in the KJV.)

Now I will list the separate DETAILED accounts of water baptism (remember, water baptism is the Lord’s will, not mine, and the list and commentary is a bit long, but only shows how much of scripture is being overlooked by the ‘Ahimaaz’ messengers):

8:12,13 (Samaritans) “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip...”.

Notice they ‘believed, and were baptized’. (sounds like fulfillment of the the Lord’s command in Mark 16:16; “He that believeth, and is baptized..”). They had NOT received the Spirit yet. Peter and John were then called to come to Samaria:

8:16; “(For as yet he was fallen upon NONE of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)”

The Ethiopian eunuch: 8:35-38; “Then Philip....preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See here is WATER; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down INTO the WATER, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” (first detailed witness mentioning water used in baptism).

10:46,47,48 (Gentiles) “...Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid WATER, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the NAME of the Lord...”. (care to guess what that name is? AND, remember these words of Peter: “Can any man forbid water..”. That is the second detailed witness mentioning water baptism).

In Acts 11 we find Peter back in Jerusalem, after the conversion event at Cornelius’ house in Caesarea, testifying of their receiving the Holy Ghost. With God giving them the Spirit, his hand was forced to obey God’s ordained plan, and baptize them in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Notice his testamony at that point:
11:17; “Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; WHAT WAS I, THAT I COULD WITHSTAND GOD?”.

God expected Peter to do HIS part, and baptise them in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission sins. Peter HAD to do it, for it was required by God.

Under your ‘no works’ opinion, those souls were completely born again after the Spirit fell, so Peter had NOTHING to withstand. Also, he could have refused to baptize them. But knew he couldn’t withstand God’s command, for notice his words; “Can any man forbid water..”.

Re-baptism in Ephesus: 19:5,6 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” (OOPS! Paul baptized ‘about twelve’ people, when he ‘wasn’t sent to baptize’. /sarc.

1Cor. 1:17 is a declaration by Paul, telling us that his ministry was not just baptism. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have baptized ANYBODY)

Now, the list of the brief mentioning of baptisms. You may argue that those are ‘Spirit’ baptisms only. Can you prove that? I say they are water baptisms, or both (and Paul is involved in all but the first of them):

Acts 2:41 about 3,000 were added.
9:18 Saul/Paul’s conversion.
16:15 Lydia and her household.
16:33 keeper of the prison and his household.
18:8 Crispus (one of several Paul admitted to baptizing in Corinth. 1Cor 1:14,16)
22:16 Saul/Paul again.

Now, the references to baptism in the epistles, which were written to those already born again (note the intro to those letters; ‘brethern’, ‘faithful’, ‘saints’, etc. Like it or not, that’s the context).

Romans 6:3; “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
4. “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:....” (That’s certainly not Spirit baptism, because the Spirit is life.) “..that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the GLORY of the FATHER, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
5 “For if we have been planted together in the LIKENESS of his death, we shall be also in the LIKENESS of his resurrection.”

Col. 2:12 is quite similar: “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the operation of God, who raised him from the dead.”

Buried,...planted.....That sure is clear to me: Paul is referring to water baptism, and Spirit baptism, as separate events, and that both are required.

1Cor. 1:12-17
Now is as good of a time as any to address the inconsistancies of the ‘water baptism is not essential’ folks, which I will call the ‘discount crowd’:

When faced with passages that mention baptism, but don’t specifically say that it was water baptism, the ‘Ahimaaz’ messengers will say it’s not talking about water baptism. But, when faced with the passage in 1Cor. 1:12-17, then they wholehearted agree that it is referring to water baptism.
(I have just taken the afore mentioned Acts 18:8 (Crispus), and solidly put that passage in the water baptism category.)

Then there is the emphasis on the name, which Paul makes clear to be Jesus: 1Cor. 1:13 “Is CHRIST divided? was PAUL crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the NAME of Paul?”
(Yes, Paul baptized in water at Corinth, in the name of Jesus.)

Heb. 6:1-3 is written to those born again: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection: not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgement. And this we will do if God permit.”
(Notice the ‘doctine of baptisms’ is plural?)

1Peter is also written to born again souls. Look at 1:2, “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto OBEDIENCE and SPRINKLING of the blood of Jesus Christ...”.

1Peter 3:20,21 is quite plain, if you are willing to allow it to harmonize with everything presented so far. 20 “...eight souls were saved by water.” 21 “The LIKE figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the butting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

Water baptism is not a bath, but is done in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. That is how it saves. That is how one has the answer of a good conscience toward God. Being “buried with him” is where you get his blood on you, but his NAME must not be left out.

If there is no resurrection, then water baptism is a waste of time. “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” 1Cor 15:29. That’s Paul (the one who wasn’t suppose to baptize), saying that if Christ (and the asleep in Christ) rise not, then it is all vain. Of course, we know that is not the case, since Christ is risen, and the Spirit poured out.

Being born again requires obedience, which is NOT ‘our OWN works’. As Paul said to the saints in Rome:

“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being THEN made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” Rom. 6:17,18


46 posted on 02/15/2015 12:28:36 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: Zuriel

Interesting post, Zuriel. Not long ago I heard a preacher speak on baptism and he noted Paul’s statement in 1 Cor. 1:17...

“For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.”

His takeaway: “So, the Gospel is NOT water baptism.”

Thoughts?


47 posted on 02/15/2015 5:42:09 PM PST by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: Zuriel

Ziruel, I have posted ore than 400 times here, giving as much of the full gospel details as I can. You can’t call me Ahaizaaz, on the basis of one post, which by the way is an exposition of a specific passage.I don’t and haven backed away from repentance, the New Birth, and the reality heaven and Hell. I think it is a cheap shot to infer otherwise.


49 posted on 02/15/2015 8:39:02 PM PST by pastorbillrandles (The choice isn't heaven or Hell. its heaven or the world)
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To: Zuriel

Interesting posts.


51 posted on 02/15/2015 9:02:08 PM PST by Wolf-Lake
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