I notice you didn't answer the
two questions I put to you. Why is that? They're multiple choice, so all you need to do is give the letters. It only takes a couple of keystrokes. :-)
Yes, I've seen people cite the "not of works" Scriptures to try and prove that God expects only faith. The trouble is a confusion as to what "works" means in the various places the Bible writers used the term.
Since Abraham was justified by faith after working, James concludes that his works made his faith perfect. And it was his perfected, working faith that justified him:
"Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect; and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God. Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith." -
James 2:22-24
Does James' understanding of works conflict with Paul's? No, Paul is speaking of different sort of works in many passages. And so are you when you say, "We are saved by grace through faith apart from our works."
What I'm trying to get you to focus on is the role works play in faith. It's not that they "contribute to our justification", as you put it. It's that they make our faith a justifying faith.
It's impossible to separate this sort of faith from works. Read James 2 again. To say that this faith exists separate from works is an error. The only faith that exists separate from works is the dead faith such as the devils have. Is that what you have? Or do you have a working faith?
I notice you didn't answer the two questions I put to you. Why is that? They're multiple choice, so all you need to do is give the letters. It only takes a couple of keystrokes. :-) Oh, but I DID answer your questions. If you want a "simple" letter answer, then perhaps you need to pose better questions.
Yes, I've seen people cite the "not of works" Scriptures to try and prove that God expects only faith. The trouble is a confusion as to what "works" means in the various places the Bible writers used the term. Since Abraham was justified by faith after working, James concludes that his works made his faith perfect.
People cite Scriptures because they are the final answers of God to the questions we have. I've seen the Roman Catholic hedge of presuming the "works" Paul is talking about that don't justify are works of the law of Moses and not the other kind of works Catholics list that are outside of the Mosaic law. However, what they fail to acknowledge is that Paul DOES speak about ALL works of righteousness which we do - whether of the law or not. He says:
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. (Titus 3:4-8)
I would remind you also that Paul EVEN addresses the case of a person who does not do good works and says that it is STILL by faith that we are justified:
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. (Romans 4:1-13)
Abraham was NOT justified by faith after working, that is a mischaracterization of what Scripture says and is disproved by the passage cited above, as well as others. When James refers to Abraham's faith being "perfected", he is talking about completeness, not the quality of his faith as if his faith was imperfect. Paul says so.
Does James' understanding of works conflict with Paul's? No, Paul is speaking of different sort of works in many passages. And so are you when you say, "We are saved by grace through faith apart from our works."
Of course James doesn't conflict with Paul, it's the SAME Holy Spirit carrying them along as they wrote. I think it is your own misunderstanding, and those who join with you in your insistence of works added to faith being what justifies and the false dichotomy of works of the law vs. works of righteousness. Instead, James is addressing how others see our faith in action. Does God NEED to see our works in order to accept our faith for salvation? No. To presume He does is blasphemy as it assumes God is not omniscient - all knowing.
What I'm trying to get you to focus on is the role works play in faith. It's not that they "contribute to our justification", as you put it. It's that they make our faith a justifying faith.
What I'm trying to get you to focus on is that our works play NO role in our justification before God. They are evidence to others as well as ourselves of the caliber of the faith we profess and they are the way through which God blesses us in this life and how we witness to a fallen world of the power of faith. Scripture says Abraham received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised and that is the place of the rite of water baptism today. Neither circumcision nor water baptism are of themselves the cause of justification but a "sign" and a "seal" of genuine faith and an outward testimony of what we have entrusted to Christ.
It's impossible to separate this sort of faith from works. Read James 2 again. To say that this faith exists separate from works is an error. The only faith that exists separate from works is the dead faith such as the devils have. Is that what you have? Or do you have a working faith?
Who is trying to separate genuine faith from the resulting acts of faith? Do demons have the ability to have justifying faith? NO. Jesus didn't die for demons, but for humanity. Do demons believe Jesus is God incarnate? Yes, because that is true whether they like it or not.
All we're trying to do here is show how there is NOTHING we do that can justify us before God, ONLY the blood of Christ takes away our sins. We receive God's gift by faith and He saves us not because of our works of righteousness but because of His mercy. Remember:
But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26)