Has Israel Heard The Gospel?...Romans 9-11 pt 13

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!(Romans 10:11-15)

The Gospel is wonderfully simple, but that very simplicity has proven to be a stumbling block to Israel. They wanted a Righteousness that one could really work at, and take pride in, righteousness as an accomplishment, something only the notably “Holy” could achieve to the honor and praise of others.

But it pleased God to provide a righteousness that all of broken, ruined and sinful humanity could access. Neither Gentile or Jew could be saved from sin in any other way, than through faith in Jesus Christ, who freely gave himself to God as a willing sacrifice for our sins. It is in the richness of the grace and generosity of God, that man can be reconciled to Him, “Whosoever will call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”.

Had Israel listened to the prophet Jeremiah they would have realized that by grace, all boasting is excluded, because salvation is by faith alone. The only true boast man could make , would be that he knows God, and that even that knowledge is a gift,

Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord.(Jeremiah 9:23-24)

Here Paul anticipates an argument to justify Israel’s inability to receive the gospel,‘Why didn’t preachers come and tell Israel the gospel?’.

But countless preachers had been sent to Israel, bringing the message of justification by Faith, to the exclusion of works, and emphasizing the inadequacy of works righteousness.

How would Adam and Eve been saved? Moses explains in Genesis 3 that they believed in the original gospel promise, of the seed of the woman. How was Abraham justified? Moses tells us in Genesis “Abraham believed God and it was counted for Righteousness”!

Prophet after Prophet and preacher after preacher came unto Israel, culminating in John the Baptist and then the Son of God himself, preaching salvation by grace and not works. After Jesus rose from the dead and ascended He sent forth the Apostles with the same message. Israel cannot say she wasn’t told.

Faith comes by Hearing and hearing by the Word of God, but Israel refused to hear John, Jesus and the Lord’s Apostles for the most part. They were all apostles, Jesus was sent from Heaven, John was sent and Jesus’ disciples were anointed and sent, but rejected by Israel.The very word ‘apostle’ means “sent one’.

But just like Isaiah, who Paul quotes here , about the “Beautiful feet of those sent to preach good news”, <'i>,Israel hardened her heart to it.

Paul anticipates another argument on behalf of Israel, “ Has she had an opportunity to really hear and understand the gospel’?

But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.(Romans 10:18-21)

In response He quotes the 19th Psalm which tells us that no one has an excuse because the Whole earth is the receptacle of the sound of the Word of God. Israel heard alright.

But Israel has proven to be stubborn, according to the Song of Moses, in which he predicted their whole history, from the very beginning to the end of time, warning Israel that Since she would provoke God to jealousy by idols, God would provoke her to jealousy by the gentile,’non-people’.

The Gentiles which didn’t concern themselves with Righteousness anywhere near as much as Israel, would be found of God, and flock to Jesus the Messiah. They weren’t looking for Him , but they found him and were enriched.

As for the Jews, for the time being, Isaiah complains in the name of God, that though he stretches pout his hands to them, they ignore him and even talk back to Him.

Neither Gentile or Jew could be saved from sin in any other way, than through faith in Jesus Christ

Well there WAS one other way to be saved, though not "saved from sin" - and that was to keep the law without sin. That's the "works of law" Paul addresses earlier in his letter, and shows that no one has done that. (It goes without saying that Jesus did, of course, and was therefore not in need of salvation from sin.) For instance:

"by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin." - 3:20

By the way, do you think you'll have a chance to address my questions in your thread from earlier today? I'd like to know where you stand on that issue.

"How would Adam and Eve been saved? Moses explains in Genesis 3 that they believed in the original gospel promise, of the seed of the woman. How was Abraham justified? Moses tells us in Genesis “Abraham believed God and it was counted for Righteousness”!"

Please. You actually buy into the Adam and Eve fairy tale? If so, how do you explain where Cain and Able found their wives? Where did those women come from since Cain and Able were the only children of Adam and Eve? How can you shut down your intellect like that? Remember, God gave you logic, and yet you and others actually believe those ramblings of unknowledgable superstitious old men.

The Old Testament is fantasy. The New Testament has some hisorical fact. However, those who wrote the Gospels believed the Earth was flat and the Sun revolved around the Earth.

I absolutely love the idea of Christ and what he stood for. I want to believe.

Navy Vet, with all due respect, you don’t know what you are talking about.Not only do I believe in Adam and Eve, the Lord Jesus Christ believed in them. There truly was a beginning to the human race, a first man and woman, created by God in His Image.Cain and Abel were not the only children of Adam and Eve, they were merely the subject of Genesis 4. Obviously they would have been expected to marry one of their sisters, Adam and Eve’s daughters. Christianity is the source of the modern university, the hospital and the scientific method, so don’t tell me about intellectual shutdown. Countless intellects much higher than you and me have embraced wholeheartedly the Biblical record, and they accomplished much more than the Nihilistic atheistic posers of our recent history. I will take as much time as you need to dialogue with you, because I sympathize with your desire to believe. My e-mail address is pastorbillrandles@gmail.com

However, those who wrote the Gospels believed the Earth was flat and the Sun revolved around the Earth.However, those who wrote the Gospels believed the Earth was flat and the Sun revolved around the Earth.

Who told you that? The bible describes the earth as a circle or sphere. The Greeks used the circle observed on the water as proof of a spherical earth. The flat earth is a product of the dark ages, not the ancient world.

I am confused with your first two paragraphs as your arguments are simplistic and clearly answered in the Bible itself, doesn't even take much study to have your questions answered.

If you really want your questions answered then search it out for yourself, it is much more fulfilling to find the answers on your own.

How can you shut down your intellect like that? Remember, God gave you logic, and yet you and others actually believe those ramblings of unknowledgable superstitious old men.

Who produced a work of writing contained in the Bible that is unparalleled in scope and coherency.

Can you write as well as any of those *superstitious old men*?

The Old Testament is fantasy.

On the contrary, archeological evidence has yet to prove the OT historically wrong. Rather it has substantiated it over and over again as archeological discoveries confirm accounts in the OT that had been previously considered legend or mythology, as you are claiming.

However, those who wrote the Gospels believed the Earth was flat and the Sun revolved around the Earth.

Prove it. Show us the basis for your claims.

I absolutely love the idea of Christ and what he stood for. I want to believe.

Then focus on Jesus and what He did and the message He preached. Just read the Gospels, especially John, and see His heart for humanity.

In a nutshell, the gospel is about reconciling man back to God. If you really want a right relationship with God, tell Him and you'll get it.

>>Cain and Able were the only children of Adam and Eve?<<

Please show where scripture teaches that Cain and Able were their "only" children.

Adam lived 930 years. And just so you don't embarrass yourself.

Genesis 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

830 years is a lot of time to have sons and daughters.

"Cain and Abel were not the only children of Adam and Eve, they were merely the subject of Genesis 4. Obviously they would have been expected to marry one of their sisters, Adam and Eve’s daughters."

Just re-read Genesis. As I've long know, there is no mention in how Cain came to "marry one of their sisters, Adam and Eve's daughters" in Chapters 1 through 3, as you have claimed.

The first part of Chapter 4 is about Cain and Able. Then it suddenly states at [4:17] "Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; ..." Nowhere in Chapter 4 nor the above Chapters does it even imply his sister was his wife. Where do you get this?

With due respect, the Old Testament writings are fables. I read recently of Christians quoting the New Testament in arguements. Few bother with the Old Testament any more.

Still, I respect your faith. However, you have to do better than quoting Genesis and guessing Cain married a sister. I want to believe, but no one has ever shown me any empirical proof of the Old Testament, not to mention logical reasoning.

I base my beliefs and behavior on inherent human virtues. That makes much more sense to me than a god that needs petty human worship and is vengeful. Personaly, I believe the creator behind the Universe just got lonely after seeing his "creation", as many are now thinking. Maybe he decided to find a point in space that worked within his model and give the micropes a lift up to work within his design?

Thank you for your goodness where ever it comes from.

Just re-read Genesis. As I've long know, there is no mention in how Cain came to "marry one of their sisters, Adam and Eve's daughters" in Chapters 1 through 3, as you have claimed.

With due respect, the Old Testament writings are fables. I read recently of Christians quoting the New Testament in arguements. Few bother with the Old Testament any more.

Thank you for your goodness where ever it comes from.

Dear NV, I appreciate your honesty. First of ll Genesis is not a comprehensive account of every facet of Adam and Eve’s family. Everything in Genesis is put there to make specific theological points.It is obvious that in the beginning of the human race. men would have had to have married their sisters. The OT writings are highly attested in Archeology as well as in other accounts of Ancient history.
Unfortunately it is true that many Christians don’t bother with the OT anymore but that is a symptom of apostasy, and faithlessness, accommodation to modernistic sensibilities.
Jesus quoted the OT, calling it scripture and treating it as true history.

Nv my advice is not to start with the Old Testament, start with Jesus, read the gospel of John and allow the Son of God to touch your heart.
BTW God is not vengeful in the sense you and I understand it. He is the Creator and Sustainer of the universe which He made, and He made it to be a moral universe, because He is HOLY. That is why He must ultimately punish all sin, wrongdoing and evil.
I see why you recognize inherent human virtues and try to base your beliedf on them, but it must be frustrating to see along those virtues, and incurable crookedness and even perversion in human nature as well. The beauty of man is that All of us are made in the Image of God, but the horror is that we have fallen.Man is capable of so much good, but also such depth of depravity.

Though He is HOLY, and must punish sin, God is Love also and would save sinners. The problem is that God can not deny his own nature. He will never allow “love” to cancel out His holiness nor vice versa. In other words He will never sweep evil under the carpet and just unconditionally forgive man.
Sin has to be paid for and the wages is death. That is why He sent Jesus Christ His son to die on the cross for our sins. WE know that this is why He died, because on the third day God raised him from the dead.
Stay in touch my friend,I will happily converse with you any time-

With due respect, the Old Testament writings are fables.

The reason you think of it as being fables may be that you are reading it from the understanding of others rather than your own understanding.

In the first place I think it would be ridicules to believe God would explain his creation down to the letter to a people who would not understand it any way,

it would be like trying to explain to a three year old child where it came from.

Even if the child understood would it be the thing to do? I don`t think so.

I will get hell for this but I believe there may have been two parts of the creation and I do mean CREATION, I do not believe Adam and eve were created on the sixth day but much later.

At the time they were created there was no man to till the ground, maybe it is because they had not been taught.

Genesis 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Could it be that the Sons of God were from Adam and eve and the daughters of men were the ones God created on the sixth day?

It is just a thought, not because I think it is fable but just the opposite, I think it is a fact that we know nothing about.

"Adam lived 930 years. And just so you don't embarrass yourself."

I am a little embarrassed since I forgot to mention Seth ,and Adam's further offspring in Chapter 5 which included daughters. So then Cain lived long enough (100's of years) to wed one of those sisters? Is that how it worked?

Also, in Chapter 4: "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me."

Who was there to slay Cain before he found his wife and begat his offspring and before Seth's offspring? Do I have the timeline correct?

With due respect to your faith, I stand by my belief that the OT is mostly fable. BTW, who wrote Genesis? Serious question.

"The reason you think of it as being fables may be that you are reading it from the understanding of others rather than your own understanding."

Not at all the case. I've questioned this all since a child even while attending Sunday School. I've tried to believe (still trying), but my mind will never shut out the fact that the Bible was written by men who knew nothing of their own world at the time. It wasn't until scientists and explorers found that the Earth wasn't flat and the Sun didn't revolve around our planet and the stars weren't magical lights in the sky.

As stated above, I admire good Christians/Jews and respect their faith and try to adhere to their basic ethics which works for the betterment of mankind. I just can't shut down my logic and reasoning. Probably best for me to bow out before I alienate and p*ss off more Christians.

>>So then Cain lived long enough (100's of years) to wed one of those sisters? Is that how it worked?<<

Cain would have lived much longer than 100 years. More likely closer to the 900 years common back then. Only after Noah was the lifespan shortened.

Not sure why this is important to you but it's obvious that in the beginning it had to be close relatives. It's logical to understand that God would have made possible those reproductive possibilities without negative consequences.

>>With due respect to your faith, I stand by my belief that the OT is mostly fable.<<

I suppose if you ignore all available archaeological and historical proof that's possible. Every historian to date that I am aware of who set out to disprove it ended up believing it.

>>BTW, who wrote Genesis? Serious question.<<

Bottom line is that it is God who is the author as He is all of scripture. Through which human is not totally proven. We do know that cuneiform tablets have been discovered that date all the way back to 3500BC so that would be in Adam's lifetime since he would have died around 3074BC. Most believe that it was Moses and/or Israelite scribes who compiled the information.

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