Posted on 02/23/2015 9:53:14 AM PST by Gamecock
Oops. We both forgot to give CB a courtesy ping.
Jesus and the apostles were still living under the Old Testament law. The apostles also reiterated the prohibition against eating blood in Acts.
I’ll join you in defending that statement. I most certainly will not listen to the logic or teachings of the Catholic Church.
So one can believe without knowing or any facts?
Sounds like someone’s method of interpretation!
I could rephrase. “I believe based on the evidence I have seen”. Better?
“Considering the apostate state of many so called Christian denominations today, I have more in common with my Roman Catholic partner than I do with a lot of Christians so called that I meet in church buildings no matter what name is on the sign out front.”
That is a very true statement. I was born and raised Catholic and remained Catholic until I was 40 (I’m 47 now). I was born again when I was 31 and remained a Catholic for nine years, mainly because I saw so many other screwed up denominations and even though I increasingly had issues with the extra-biblical doctrines within the Catholic Church, I remained there because I didn’t know where else to go. Finally some independent Baptists started up a Bible study in our neighborhood and I was blessed to eventually meet their pastor and join a Bible-believing church.
All that said, I’ve known many saved Catholics over the years and have some family members who are still Catholics but I know they’re saved. And by saved, I mean they have received Christ as Lord and Savior and believe in salvation by grace alone through faith alone and nothing else. I know some might find it hard to believe such people exist within the Church but there are many.
One of the reasons is that in many Catholic parishes, you can go to Mass for years without ever hearing about doctrines like praying to Mary and the Saints and Purgatory. Also, the core doctrine of the Catholic Church — the Nicene Creed — is the same as most Protestant denominations.
The challenge I had was that the more I studied the Bible, the harder time I had reconciling these extra-biblical doctrines with the Scriptures. I couldn’t find Purgatory anywhere and I found no biblical precedent for praying to Old Testament saints like Abraham and Moses, so I couldn’t figure out why we should be doing that today.
The only response I got was that we must put the writings of the Catechism and the “infallible” declarations of the Pope on the same level as Scripture. But common sense tells you they cannot have the same authority because the latter two lack authors with a direct connection to Christ like most of the New Testament writers had. Not to mention the history of corruption within the papacy throughout the centuries.
Suffice it to say, the Catholic Church itself has issues to be sure, and when I was a Catholic, I had no problem admitting that. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of saved people there. One of the main reasons I decided it was time to part company was when my daughter turned 5 or 6 and I could not in good conscience raise her in a church and at the same time tell her to ignore certain practices. Also, at the end of the day, if one is a devout Catholic, it seems that they would end up with at least a partial works-righteousness theology just based on the Purgatory doctrine alone.
I could be totally off base, but this is just my view after spending many decades in the Catholic Church.
Brother, I caution you. You are dangerously close to beliefs that can only lead to hellfire. You are taking it upon yourself to determine what only God can know. Only God can judge who has or has not been saved, who is or is not among his flock.
What you express here is very like the same sin that Satan was guilt of: pride. Only those with too much pride could possibly believe that they could cast judgement upon the immortal souls of their peers. “Judge not; lest ye be judged.”
I beg you to remember that Jesus wanted us to be humble, not proud. And I can think of nothing more prideful than declaring who is or is not saved.
The devil’s tongue speaks through your lips...
By proclaiming Christ alone? I think not.
I don't find that hard to believe at all.
You forget that Jesus created the laws and He specially told us to eat His Body and Blood for our salvation.
I accept the words of Jesus and receive His Body and Blood at Mass.
If you do not wish to do so, then you can explain it to Him if you get the chance to meet Him.
How do you know if you are short
Ask the Holy Spirit.
As a sidebar, what means this and what language is it?
Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!
Not really. The prohibition against drinking blood is from the Old Testament. I can’t find an example of Jesus saying ‘do not eat or drink blood.’ Jesus contradicted Old Testament laws on several occasions, by not requiring the apostles to follow strict handwashing laws, by associating with tax collectors and Samaritans. So by OT law, Jesus WAS a sinner. Is that the same standard you attempt to hold him to? Because He really did say what he said and contradicted the OT.
That was what caused the uproar, and when questioned about it He restated and clarified that that was indeed what He meant. Why would He allow people to leave Him without saying ‘of course I’m speaking figuratively’? Did He think they were too stupid to save? Why would He lose souls over misunderstanding? Why would He only want those to stay with Him who knew immediately that He was being figurative and not correct those who were upset because they mistakenly took Him literally? Did He drive them away on purpose?
He also confirmed His literal meaning at the last supper, saying ‘This is my blood’. He is not comparing Himself to it, He is saying that it is His, and He then tells us what to do with it. Nowhere is He stated to have said, ‘this represents my blood’. Surely He knew that the concept of eating flesh and drinking blood was controversial. And by now it was obvious that some people when told about this in the future would take Him literally as had happened before. Why would He risk losing disciples and having His purpose be misunderstood for all time at this most critical moment?
You do not wish to take this example of Christ’s words literally, I understand that. But you should not fault those who do accept those words as literal. You may believe that the people who stayed with Jesus did so because they understood him to be speaking figuratively, but I believe just the opposite, and there is again no clear explanation in scripture to tell us which one is the absolute truth. We have to make our own judgement based on our interpretation of the context and preceding and following events.
1 Corinthians 11:29 being a strong example for the literal interpretation. ‘For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.’ Would partaking of a symbol unworthily carry such a penalty?
I don’t think your interpretation is impossible, I just think it is wrong. I don’t judge you and I am not convinced that your beliefs are evil and will keep you from salvation even though you are apparently convinced of this about my beliefs.
Jesus also said He was the way, the truth and the life, and I believe that literally, too. Some may believe that this was also figurative. Who gets to draw the lines? And I actually do believe He was ‘the lamb’, literally. Not ‘a lamb’ but ‘The Lamb’ of God, the perfect sacrifice.
Love, O2
TAGLINETAGLINETAGLINETAGLINE
Not necessarily. Was it based on 1 or 2 individuals?
It was a provocative statement that doesn’t lead anyone to following God’s will.
It looks like Anglo Saxon.
Forget your tagline tagline tagline and deal with this your statement:
omegatoo : “So by OT law, Jesus WAS a sinner.”
Anglo-Saxon (Old English)
It means “Listen, [’Hwaet’ becomes the modern English word ‘what’ and is pronounced very much like it] knowledge [’lore’] is the greatest [’most’] treasure [’hoard’], truly!”
Good eye!
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