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How We Got the Bible
For the Love of His Truth ^ | May 19, 2012 | John MacArthur

Posted on 02/24/2015 7:04:16 PM PST by redleghunter

Ever since Eve encountered Satan’s barrage of doubt and denial (Gen. 3:1-7), mankind has continued to question God’s Word. Unfortunately, Eve had little or no help in sorting through her intellectual obstacles to full faith in God’s self-disclosure (Gen. 2:16,17).

Now the Scripture certainly has more than enough content to be interrogated, considering that it’s comprised of 66 books, 1,189 chapters, 31,173 verses, and 774,746 words. When you open your English translation to read or study, you might have asked in the past or are currently asking, “How can I be sure this is the pure and true Word of God?”

A question of this kind is not altogether bad, especially when one seeks to learn with a teachable mind (Acts 17:11). The Scripture invites the kinds of queries that a sincere student asks.

A whole host of questions can flood the mind, such as:

· Where did the Bible come from? · Whose thinking does it reflect? · Did any books of the Bible get lost in time past? · What does the Scripture claim for itself? · Does it live up to its claims? · Who wrote the Bible–God or man? · Has Scripture been protected from human tampering over the centuries? · How close to the original manuscripts are today’s translations? · How did the Bible get to our time and in our language? · Is there more Scripture to come, beyond the current 66 books? .Who determined, and on what basis, that the Bible would be composed of the traditional list of 66 books? · If the Scriptures were written over a period of 1,500 years (ca. 1405 B.C. to A.D. 95), · If the Scriptures were written over a period of 1,500 years (ca. 1405 B.C. to A.D. 95), passed down since then for almost 2,000 years, and translated into several thousand languages, what prevented the Bible from being changed by the carelessness or ill motives of men? Does today’s Bible really deserve the title “The Word of God”? Undoubtedly, these questions have bombarded the minds of many. A study of the Scriptures alone settles all questions to the extent that there is no need to be bothered by them again. Scripture gives this assurance.

Scriptures’ Self Claims

Take the Bible and let it speak for itself. Does it claim to be God’s Word? Yes! Over 2,000 times in the Old Testament alone, the Bible asserts that God spoke what is written within its pages. From the beginning (Gen. 1:3) to the end (Mal. 4:3) and continually throughout, this is what Scripture claims.

The phrase “the Word of God” occurs over 40 times in the New Testament. It is equated with the Old Testament (Mark 7:13). It is what Jesus preached (Luke 5:1). It was the message the apostles taught (Acts 4:31; 6:2). It was the Word the Samaritans received (Acts 8:14) as given by the apostles (Acts 8:25). It was the message the Gentiles received as preached by Peter (Acts 11:1). It was the word Paul preached on his first missionary journey (Acts 13:5,7,44,48,49; 15:35,36). It was the message preached on Paul’s second missionary journey (Acts 16:32; 17:13; 18:11). It was the message Paul preached on his third missionary journey (Acts 19:10). It was the focus of Luke in the book of Acts in that it spread rapidly and widely (Acts 6:7; 12:24; 19:20). Paul was careful to tell the Corinthians that he spoke the Word as it was given from God, that it had not been adulterated, and that it was a manifestation of truth (2 Cor. 2:17; 4:2). Paul acknowledged that it was the source of his preaching (Col. 1:25; 1 Thess. 2:13).

Psalms 19 and 119, plus Proverbs 30:5-6, make powerful statements about God’s Word which set it apart from any other religious instruction ever known in the history of mankind. These passages make the case for the Bible being called “sacred” (2 Tim. 3:15) and “holy” (Rom. 1:2).

The Bible claims ultimate spiritual authority in doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness because it represents the inspired Word of Almighty God (2 Tim. 3:16,17). Scripture asserts its spiritual sufficiency, so much so that it claims exclusivity for its teaching (cf. Is. 55:11; 2 Pet. 1:3,4).

God’s Word declares that it is inerrant (Pss. 12:6; 119:140; Prov. 30:5a; John 10:35) and infallible (2 Tim. 3:16, 17). In other words, it is true and therefore trustworthy. All of these qualities aredependent on the fact that the Scriptures are God-given (2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Pet. 1:2 0,21), which guarantees its quality at the Source and at its original writing.

In Scripture, the person of God and the Word of God are everywhere interrelated, so much so that whatever is true about the character of God is true about the nature of God’s Word. God is true, impeccable, and reliable; therefore, so is His Word. What a person thinks about God’s Word, in reality, reflects what a person thinks about God.

Thus, the Scripture can make these demands on its readers.

So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord. Deut. 8:3

I have not departed from the commandment of His lips; I have treasured the words of His mouth more than my necessary food. Job 23:12

The Publishing Process

The Bible does not expect its reader to speculate on how these divine qualities were transferred from God to His Word, but rather anticipates the questions with convincing answers. Every generation of skeptics has assailed the self-claims of the Bible, but its own explanations and answers have been more than equal to the challenge. The Bible has gone through God’s publishing process in being given to and distributed among the human race. Its several features are discussed below.

Revelation

God took the initiative to disclose or reveal Himself to mankind (Heb. 1:1). The vehicles varied; sometimes it was through the created order, at other times through visions/dreams or speaking prophets. However, the most complete and understandable self-disclosures were through the propositions of Scripture (1 Cor. 2:6-16). The revealed and written Word of God is unique in that it is the only revelation of God that is complete and that so clearly declares man’s sinfulness and God’s provision of the Savior.

Inspiration

The revelation of God was captured in the writings of Scripture by means of “inspiration.” This has more to do with the process by which God revealed Himself than the fact of His self-revelation. “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. . .” (2 Tim. 3:16) makes the claim. Peter explains the process, “. . . knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit” (2 Pet. 1:20,21). By this means, the Word of God was protected from human error in its original record by the ministry of the Holy Spirit (cf. Deut. 18:18; Matt. 1:22). A section of Zech. 7:12 describes it most clearly, “. . . the law and the words which the Lord of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets.” This ministry of the Spirit extended to both the part (the words) and to the whole in the original writings.

Canonicity

We must understand that the Bible is actually one book with one Divine Author, though it was written over a period of 1,500 years through the pens of almost 40 human writers. The Bible began with the creation account of Genesis 1,2, written by Moses about 1405 b.c., and extends to the eternity future account of Revelation 21,22, written by the Apostle John about a.d. 95. During this time, God progressively revealed Himself and His purposes in the inspired Scriptures. But this raises a significant question: “How do we know what supposed sacred writings were to be included in the canon of Scripture and which ones were to be excluded?”

Over the centuries, 3 widely recognized principles were used to validate those writings which came as a result of divine revelation and inspiration. First, the writing had to have a recognized prophet or apostle as its author (or one associated with them, as in the case of Mark, Luke, Hebrews, James, and Jude). Second, the writing could not disagree with or contradict previous Scripture. Third, the writing had to have general consensus by the church as an inspired book. Thus, when various councils met in church history to consider the canon, they did not vote for the canonicity of a book but rather recognized, after the fact, what God had already written.

With regard to the Old Testament, by the time of Christ all of the Old Testament had been written and accepted in the Jewish community. The last book, Malachi, had been completed about 430 b.c. Not only does the Old Testament canon of Christ’s day conform to the Old Testament which has since been used throughout the centuries, but is does not contain the uninspired and spurious Apocrypha, that group of 14 rogue writings which were written after Malachi and attached to the Old Testament about 200-150 b.c. in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament called the

Septuagint (LXX), appearing to this very day in some versions of the Bible. However, not one passage from the Apocrypha is cited by any New Testament writer, nor did Jesus affirm any of it as He recognized the Old Testament canon of His era (cf. Luke 24:27,44).

By Christ’s time, the Old Testament canon had been divided up into two lists of 22 or 24 books respectively, each of which contained all the same material as the 39 books of our modern versions. In the 22 book canon, Jeremiah and Lamentations were considered as one, as were Judges and Ruth. Here is how the 24 book format was divided.

The Hebrew Old Testament

Law

1. Genesis 2. Exodus 3. Leviticus 4. Numbers 5. Deuteronomy

Prophets

A. Former Prophets 6. Joshua 7. Judges 8. Samuel (1 & 2) 9. Kings (1 & 2)

B. Latter Prophets 10. Isaiah 11. Jeremiah 12. Ezekiel 13. The Twelve (minor prophets)

Writings

A. Poetical Books 14. Psalms 15. Proverbs 16. Job

B. Five Rolls (Megilloth) 17. Song of Solomon 18. Ruth 19. Lamentations 20. Ecclesiastes 21. Esther

C. Historical Books 22. Daniel 23. Ezra-Nehemiah 24. Chronicles (1 & 2)

The same 3 key tests of canonicity that applied to the Old Testament also applied to the New

Testament. In the case of Mark and Luke/Acts, the authors were considered to be, in effect, the penmen for Peter and Paul respectively. James and Jude were written by Christ’s half-brothers. While Hebrews is the only New Testament book whose authorship is unknown for certain, its content is so in line with both the Old Testament and New Testament, that the early church concluded it must have been written by an apostolic associate. The 27 books of the New Testament have been universally accepted since ca. a.d. 350-400 as inspired by God.

Preservation

How can one be sure that the revealed and inspired, written Word of God, which was recognized as canonical by the early church, has been handed down to this day without any loss of material? Furthermore, since one of the Devil’s prime concerns is to undermine the Bible, have the Scriptures survived this destructive onslaught? In the beginning, he denied God’s Word to Eve (Gen. 3:4). Satan later attempted to distort the Scripture in his wilderness encounter with Christ (Matt. 4:6,7). Through King Jehoiakim, he even attempted to literally destroy the Word (Jer. 36:23). The battle for the Bible rages, but Scripture has and will continue to outlast its enemies.

God anticipated man’s and Satan’s malice towards the Scripture with divine promises to preserve His Word. The very continued existence of Scripture is guaranteed in Isaiah 40:8, “The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever” (cf. 1 Pet. 1:25). This even means that no inspired Scripture has been lost in the past and still awaits rediscovery.

The actual content of Scripture will be perpetuated, both in heaven (Ps. 119:89) and on earth (Is. 59:21). Thus the purposes of God, as published in the sacred writings, will never be thwarted, even in the least detail (cf. Matt. 5:18; 24:25; Mark 13:3; Luke 16:17).

So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. Is. 55:11

Transmission

Since the Bible has frequently been translated into multiple languages and distributed throughout the world, how can we be sure that error has not crept in, even if it was unintentional? As Christianity spread, it is certainly true that people desired to have the Bible in their own language which required translations from the original Hebrew and Aramaic languages of the Old Testament and the Greek of the New Testament. Not only did the work of translators provide an opportunity for error, but publication, which was done by hand copying until the printing press arrived ca. a.d. 1450, also afforded continual possibilities of error.

Through the centuries, the practitioners of textual criticism, a precise science, have discovered, preserved, catalogued, evaluated, and published an amazing array of biblical manuscripts from both the Old and New Testaments. In fact, the number of existing biblical manuscripts dramatically outdistances the existing fragments of any other ancient literature. By comparing text with text, the textual critic can confidently determine what the original prophetic/apostolic, inspired writing contained.

Although existing copies of the main, ancient Hebrew text (Masoretic) date back only to the tenth century a.d., two other important lines of textual evidence bolster the confidence of textual critics that they have reclaimed the originals. First, the tenth century a.d. Hebrew Old Testament can be compared to the Greek translation called the Septuagint or LXX (written ca. 200-150 b.c.; the oldest existing manuscripts dates to ca. a.d. 325). There is amazing consistency between the two, which speaks of the accuracy in copying the Hebrew text for centuries. Second, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947-1956 (manuscripts that are dated ca. 200-100 b.c.) proved to be monumentally important. After comparing the earlier Hebrew texts with the later ones, only a few slight variants were discovered, none of which changed the meaning of any passage. Although the Old Testament had been translated and copied for centuries, the latest version was essentially the same as the earlier ones.

The New Testament findings are even more decisive because a much larger amount of material is available for study; there are over 5,000 Greek New Testament manuscripts that range from the whole testament to scraps of papyri which contain as little as part of one verse. A few existing fragments date back to within 25-50 years of the original writing. New Testament textual scholars have generally concluded that 1) 99.99 percent of the original writings have been reclaimed, and 2) of the remaining one hundredth of one percent, there are no variants substantially affecting any Christian doctrine.

With this wealth of biblical manuscripts in the original languages and with the disciplined activity of textual critics to establish with almost perfect accuracy the content of the autographs, any errors which have been introduced and/or perpetuated by the thousands of translations over the centuries can be identified and corrected by comparing the translation or copy with the reassembled original. By this providential means, God has made good His promise to preserve the Scriptures. We can rest assured that there are translations available today which indeed are worthy of the title, The Word of God.

The history of a full, English translation Bible essentially began with John Wycliffe (ca. a.d. 1330-1384), who made the first English translation of the whole Bible. Later, William Tyndale was associated with the first complete, printed New Testament in English, ca. a.d. 1526. Myles Coverdale followed in a.d. 1535, by delivering the first complete Bible printed in English. By a.d. 1611, the King James Version (KJV) had been completed. Since then, hundreds of translations have been made–some better, some worse. Today, the better English translations of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures include: 1) New King James Version (NKJV); 2) New International Version (NIV); and 3) New American Standard Bible (NASB).

Summing It Up God intended His Word to abide forever (preservation). Therefore His written, propositional, self disclosure (revelation) was protected from error in its original writing (inspiration) and collected in 66 books of the Old and New Testaments (canonicity).

Through the centuries, tens of thousands of copies and thousands of translations have been made (transmission) which did introduce some error. Because there is an abundance of existing ancient Old Testament and New Testament manuscripts, however, the exacting science of textual criticism has been able to reclaim the content of the original writings (revelation and inspiration) to the extreme degree of 99.99 percent, with the remaining one hundredth of one percent having no effect on its content (preservation).

The sacred book which we read, study, obey, and preach deserves to unreservedly be called The Bible or “The Book without peer,” since its author is God and it bears the qualities of total truth and complete trustworthiness as also characterizes its divine source.

Is There More To Come?

How do we know that God will not amend our current Bible with a 67th inspired book? Or, in other words, “Is the canon forever closed?”

Scripture texts warn that no one should delete from or add to Scripture (Deut. 4:2; 12:32; Prov. 30:6). Realizing that additional canonical books actually came after these words of warning, we can only conclude that while no deletions whatsoever were permitted, in fact, authorized, inspired writings were permitted to be added in order to complete the canon protected by those passages.

The most compelling text on the closed canon is the Scripture to which nothing has been added for 1,900 years.

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:18,19

Several significant observations, when taken together, have convinced the church over the centuries that the canon of Scripture is actually closed, never to be reopened.

1. The book of Revelation is unique to the Scripture in that it describes with unparalleled detail the end-time events which precede eternity future. As Genesis began Scripture by bridging the gap from eternity past into our time/space existence with the only detailed creation account (Gen. 1, 2), so there was a parallel silence after John delivered Revelation. This also leads to the conclusion that the New Testament canon was then closed.

2. Just as there was prophetic silence after Malachi completed the Old Testament canon, so there was a parallel silence after John delivered Revelation. This leads to the conclusion that the New Testament canon was then closed also.

3. Since there have not been, nor now are, any authorized prophets or apostles in either the Old Testament and New Testament sense, there are not any potential authors of future inspired, canonical writings. God’s Word, “once for all delivered to the saints,” is never to be added to, but to be earnestly contended for (Jude 3).

4. Of the 4 exhortations not to tamper with Scripture, only the one in Revelation 22:18,19 contains warnings of severe Divine judgement for disobedience. Further, Revelation is the only book of the New Testament to end with this kind of admonition and was written over 20 years after any other New Testament book. Therefore, these facts strongly suggest that Revelation was the last book of the canon and that the Bible is complete; to either add or delete would bring God’s severe displeasure.

5. Finally, the early church, those closest in time to the apostles, believed that Revelation concluded God’s inspired writings, the Scriptures.

So we can conclude, based on solid Biblical reasoning, that the canon is and will remain closed. There will be no future 67th book of the Bible.

Where Do We Stand?

In April, 1521, Martin Luther appeared before his ecclesiastical accusers at the Diet of Worms. They had given him the ultimatum to repudiate his unwavering faith in the sufficiency and perspicuity of the Scriptures. Luther is said to have responded, “Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason–I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other–my conscience is captive to the Word of God… God help me! Here I stand.”

Like Martin Luther, may we rise above the doubts within and confront the threats without when God’s Word is assailed. God help us to be loyal contenders of the faith. Let us stand with God and the Scripture alone.

The Bible

This book contains: the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers.

Its doctrine is holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be saved, and practice it to be holy.

It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword, and the Christian’s charter. Here heaven is open, and the gates of hell are disclosed.

Christ is the grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet.

Read it slowly, frequently, and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, health to the soul, and a river of pleasure. It is given to you here in this life, will be opened at the judgment, and is established forever.

It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and condemn all who trifle with its contents.

For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe. 1 Thess. 2:13

John F. MacArthur, Jr., The MacArthur Study Bible, (Dallas: Word Publishing) 1997


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; canon; macarthur
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To: xzins
Our voices are amongst ourselves, and the good ideas permeate out through our various personal networks, and sometimes Free Republic hits a triple or homer that gets widely disseminated.

Even though we FReepers disagree about a lot of religious stuff; sometimes quite vehemently; we are unified in our love of country and in our patriotism!

We may express these values in different ways, and we get into fights over this, as well; but let the Liberal cop show up to try to stop the family feud going on; he'd best have backup!

221 posted on 02/27/2015 3:40:14 AM PST by Elsie
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To: boatbums
I couldn't agree more! I'm upping my monthly contribution from $30 to $50 in your honor! ☺

Do you REALLY want to antagonize some of our Catholics FRiends this way?

You are liable to start a parallel fundraiser to match or EXCEED what some of them have STOPPED donating!

222 posted on 02/27/2015 3:43:31 AM PST by Elsie
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To: af_vet_1981
Title: How We Got the Bible


Time to delve into the mystery of...

How We USE the Bible

223 posted on 02/27/2015 3:45:23 AM PST by Elsie
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To: af_vet_1981
 
 
Were Jews robbed, raped, and murdered as a direct result of his conspiracy ?
 
 
 
 
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=pius+xii+greeted+hitleras+savior+of+germany&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&gws_rd=ssl
 
 

224 posted on 02/27/2015 3:52:11 AM PST by Elsie
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To: metmom
To be deep in Scripture is to cease to be a Catholic......

LOL, Roger that.

225 posted on 02/27/2015 4:52:18 AM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Elsie

WE do know Ted and John Kennedy’s daddy was a big Hitler fan.


226 posted on 02/27/2015 4:58:11 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: xone
There is hypocrisy on this thread? Say it ain’t so Joe!

The shoeless one?

227 posted on 02/27/2015 5:20:40 AM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
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To: Mark17

There were no protestants around for the fist 1,500 years after Jesus died on the cross. The Bible had been around for a thousand years or more. The Holy Spirit used the CATHOLIC CHURCH to give the world the Bible. Without that happening no protestant would have ever heard of Jesus Christ and his teachings. Don’t the haters on here think it’s about time that credit it given where credit is due? You can’t change history anymore than I can. It is absolutely ridiculous and childish the way some on here rant and rave the minute they hear the word Catholic.


228 posted on 02/27/2015 7:18:46 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: af_vet_1981
Yes. Even in old age he conspired against real Jewish refugees in order to physically harm them. Were Jews robbed, raped, and murdered as a direct result of his conspiracy ? Probably.

This isn't an Inquisitorial Court, 'probably' doesn't make it as a standard of proof. But I forget this is the OTC and they can make up the rules as they go.

As to the charges against the OTC's AS, we have no need for 'probably'. They were certain, trumpeted by the OTC herself. Some Catholics today feign outrage but turn the eye and bend the knee.

As for the Scripture, what a beautiful description of the claimed leaders of the OTC and its blind adherents.

229 posted on 02/27/2015 7:44:12 AM PST by xone
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To: Mark17
The shoeless one?

I think the 'clotheless one' as in their emperor.

230 posted on 02/27/2015 7:45:24 AM PST by xone
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To: NKP_Vet
Don’t the haters on here think it’s about time that credit it given where credit is due?

You can’t change history anymore than I can.

It is absolutely ridiculous and childish the way some on here rant and rave the minute they hear the word Catholic.


231 posted on 02/27/2015 8:57:21 AM PST by Elsie
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To: xone
The false apostle you have chosen to defend practiced an active conspiracy as the cancer of his Jew hatred ate away at him. It persuades me he rejected the Messiah in favor of the adversary because he chose to consume himself with hatred for Catholics and Jews, Anabaptists notwithstanding. I'm not surprised men follow Luther's spirit. They still follow Mohammed's as well. It was no surprise Germany teamed up with Moslems to try to eradicate Jewry. Germany was two-thirds Lutheran when they elected Hitler, who implemented Luther's seven point plan on a worldwide scale beyond Germany's new borders.

Martinus Luther, D.
On St. Dorothy's-day, 1646.
LETTER LXII.
To the same. February 7, 1546.
From the same place. To my dear wife Katherine Luther, doctoress and self-tormentor, at Wittenberg; to the hands and feet of my gracious lady. Grace and peace in the Lord. Read, dear Kate, St. John and the small catechism, of which you sometimes say, all in this book is said of me. For you must needs take God's cares on you, just as if He were not Almighty, who could create ten Doctor Martinus's, if the one old one were drowned in the Saal, or at Ofenloch, or at Wolf's Vogelheerd.1 Leave me in peace with your cares; I have a better guardian than you and all the angels—He who lay in a manger, and hung on a virgin's breast, but now sits at the right 1 Probably allusions to particular places.

hand of the Almighty Father. Therefore be in peace. Amen. I think that hell and the whole world must be empty of all their devils, who perhaps have all met together on my account at Eisleben, so stiff and stubborn is the state of affairs. There are Jews here, near fifty in a house, as I have before written to you. They say that at Rissdorf, near Eisleben, the place where I was ill on my journey hither, nigh four hundred Jews pass in and out. Count Albrecht, to whom all the frontier round Eisleben belongs, has withdrawn his protection from any Jews who may be seized on his property; yet no one will as yet do any thing to them. The Countess of Mansfeld, widow of Solms, is considered the protector of the Jews. I know not whether it is true; but I have made it strongly enough apparent to-day, if one chooses to understand it, what my opinion is, if it is of any use. Pray, pray, pray, and help us, that we may do it well. For to-day I had a mind to give full vent to my wrath, but was restrained when the wretchedness of my fatherland occurred to me.

232 posted on 02/27/2015 9:11:55 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
The false apostle you have chosen to defend practiced an active conspiracy as the cancer of his Jew hatred ate away at him.

I don't defend his AS. Try to keep up.

It persuades me he rejected the Messiah in favor of the adversary because he chose to consume himself with hatred for Catholics and Jews,

Yet apart from a 'conspiracy' you have a active pogrom against Jews for 1500 years, but somehow they remain unsullied. Catholicism and Pharisees have much in common, but man-made teaching and hypocrisy must be the most prominent.

So is it Germans you hate now or just German lutherans? Those same Muslims Hitler hung out with are the same your OTC now cozies with. That'll show them Germans.

233 posted on 02/27/2015 9:21:59 AM PST by xone
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To: xone
I don't defend his AS. Try to keep up.

It seems to me you try to downplay it by claiming it was just a "polemic" and besides others did it too. It reminds me of that viral YouTube video someone made for Britney Spears. "Just Leave Martin Alone ..." Talk about being a fan for the wrong star...
Drawn like a moth to the flame, somehow one of the greatest antisemites masquerading as a true Christian must be defended at all costs, no matter what damage is done to the Gospel.

Do you believe the least of Jesus' brethren included the Jews whom Luther hated and conspired against ? Did they include the Jews that were rounded up for extermination by the Gentiles in the Holocaust ?

Except it is not funny. The real damage occurs by representing him and his doctrines as genuine Christianity.

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
-Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty five, Protestant verses thirty one to forty six, as authorized by King James

234 posted on 02/27/2015 9:47:48 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: redleghunter

Does “is useful” mean “possesses ultimate spiritual authority”?


235 posted on 02/27/2015 9:50:58 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise. .)
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To: af_vet_1981
It seems to me you try to downplay it by claiming it was just a "polemic" and besides others did it too.

It was just a polemic, it didn't survive in his theology.

It reminds me of that viral YouTube video someone made for Britney Spears. "Just Leave Martin Alone ..." Talk about being a fan for the wrong star...

As for tv, Sgt Schulz, you do a good job of imitating him when it comes to ignoring the OTC's ACTIONS. They speak louder than words and based on current events, indicate that nothing has changed with the OTC.

Drawn like a moth to the flame, somehow one of the greatest antisemites masquerading as a true Christian must be defended at all costs, no matter what damage is done to the Gospel.

One of the greatest antisemites? LOL he would have been canonized by the Catholics were it not for his theology which was counter to the myths of the Catholic church and for the truth of God. He was a sinner like everyone else, but a self-righteous see no evil Reformation hater stuck in denial cleaves to an org with practices that caused real damage. How many Catholic laity exercised the same AS as their leaders without that good old Catholic mercy?

Do you believe the least of Jesus' brethren included the Jews whom Luther hated and conspired against ? Did they include the Jews that were rounded up for extermination by the Gentiles in the Holocaust ?

Were they one in Christ Jesus?

The real damage occurs by representing him and his doctrines as genuine Christianity.

I wasn't aware that the LC had a section of AS doctrine, care to point it out? Being different from the doctrines taught by Catholicism is a plus, not a negative. OTOH we have numerous examples of Papal proclamations encyclicals and bulls regarding Jews and the effects of the same.

Perhaps these postings gain an indulgence. Some Papal saints could sure use it.

236 posted on 02/27/2015 11:34:30 AM PST by xone
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To: Jim Noble
Does “is useful” mean “possesses ultimate spiritual authority”?

Let's look at the entire passage:

2 Timothy 3 King James Version (KJV):

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

It continues in chapter 4:

2 Timothy 4 King James Version (KJV):

4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Now that we have the context of the questioned posed...what is your real question?

237 posted on 02/27/2015 11:41:42 AM PST by redleghunter (He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Lk24)
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To: xone
"Do you believe the least of Jesus' brethren included the Jews whom Luther hated and conspired against ? Did they include the Jews that were rounded up for extermination by the Gentiles in the Holocaust ?"

Were they one in Christ Jesus?

It seems to me your answer confirms your approval of what Luther wrote, just not its intensity, and explains the attempt to rehabilitate his blatant hatred of the Jews into an acceptable form of theological antisemitism. You, in your own words, deny the Jews are the least of Jesus' brethren and do not fall under the sheep and goats parable. It is a shame what the spirit and doctrine of Luther can do to this day. It is Antisemitism masquerading as Christianity,

238 posted on 02/27/2015 11:58:00 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
It seems to me your answer confirms your approval of what Luther wrote,

No, but it relies on Scripture to ID Christ's brethren. Now despite the Scripture you posted, your lack of knowledge of what is in it isn't helping here. Check Christ's own words for once instead of the Catholic Guide to Hating Luther on the Internet

do not fall under the sheep and goats parable.

The sheep and the goats are separated before they appear before the throne. While in line with Catholic ideas of works righteousness, the ignorance is stunning. Blinded to the AS of the Catholic church in history, blinded to the grace of the parable. Any more and you'll need to speak much louder, your hole is getting pretty deep.

239 posted on 02/27/2015 12:14:31 PM PST by xone
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To: af_vet_1981
It seems to me

As Reagan would say "There you go again." Prov 3:5

240 posted on 02/27/2015 12:17:00 PM PST by xone
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