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To: don-o; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; metmom; daniel1212; Gamecock; HossB86; ...
CB - So are you saying they did NOT eat the real flesh and blood at the last supper?

don-o - They did not. It was only after Pentecost and the sending of the Holy Spirit that the Sacraments (Mysteries) became the means of imparting grace.

Ok, so let me get this straight. I this passage you claim Jesus did NOT mean it was literally His body and blood right?

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

You are saying He really didn't mean to tell them it was His literal body and blood right? And when He said "this is my blood" you say He didn't really mean it was His literal blood right?

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

131 posted on 03/01/2015 2:35:37 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

I have allowed myself to be drawn into an argument that I should not be participating in.

My approach should have been to simply declare what I believe and leave it at that. The premise of Jesus breaking the law, in any shape, manner or form is ridiculous on its face; and any discussion of a ridiculous premise is, Yes, ridiculous.

I regret my own foolishness.

Oh, and if you need to, feel free to ping your posse to this.


132 posted on 03/01/2015 3:15:40 PM PST by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!)
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To: CynicalBear

The words of the priest are the direct efficient cause of the change of the substance of the bread and wine into the substance of the body and blood of Christ. His human soul and divinity become present by “concomitance,” not as a direct effect of the words of consecration.

According to Thomas Aquinas, the Eucharist at the Last Supper was the same body and blood of Jesus that the apostles saw at table with them. If one of the apostles had celebrated the Eucharist while Jesus was in the tomb, the Eucharistic species would have contained his dead body, and his dead blood. It would have contained his divinity as well, because his divinity is the “act of existence” of his body and blood. I.e, even in death, the body and blood were hypostatically united with his divinity Person. His human soul would not have been present, because he was dead. After the Resurrection, the Eucharist contains the body and blood, and the human soul, and the divine Person of the Risen Christ.

AFAIK, the Magisterium has not dealt with the hypothetical portion of Thomas Aquinas’s teaching (i.e., the part about the celebration of the Eucharist while Jesus was dead), but I am quite sure that it is not correct to say that the Real Presence in the Eucharist did not occur at the Last Supper, and could not occur until after Pentecost.


142 posted on 03/01/2015 6:16:58 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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