Conversion from Roman Catholicism to Biblical Christianity

Gorden & Jacki's Place ^ | March 2<2015 | Jackie

[metmom]

You’re entitled to your opinion.

Scripture is Scripture and has been recognized as such before the Catholic church came along and doesn’t need the RCC stamp of approval on it to validate it.

The Holy Spirit is more than capable of enlightening the heart and mind to the truths in Scripture than any *interpretation* given by the RCC.

Petrine authority is simply wishful thinking on the part of Catholics.

[metmom]

What about all of those people — according to your own testimony! — who don’t know Jesus and with whom your churches are “filled” — your word! I’ll bet a lot of them think their salvation is “assured,” but it’s not really, is it? So your unbiblical “assurance” is just a myth.

God doesn't think so.

Our assurance isn't based on some people who think they might be saved and are not. It's based on the sure, true, unchanging word of God.

Security of the believer

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”

1 Corinthians 1:4-8 I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus,that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge—even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you—so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3156607/posts?page=313#313

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

For which the Greek, from the Byzantine, is:

2Corinthians 1:21-22 ο δε βεβαιων ημας συν υμιν εις χριστον και χρισας ημας θεος ο και σφραγισαμενος ημας και δους τον αρραβωνα του πνευματος εν ταις καρδιαις ημων

The first word in bold above is “bebaion,” the idea of confirmation, frequently used in commercial settings to confirm a bargain. Which of course makes sense of the remaining terms used here, which are also elements of a secured contract.

The second word in bold above is “sphragisamenos,” being sealed is to be marked by the signature, signet ring, or other unique proof of identity, that we belong to God, and this sealing is done by God, who is the one taking action in this verse. We do not and cannot seal ourselves. We do not, by our own powers, have access to God’s “signet ring.”

The third bolded word above is “arrabona,” and indicates what we might loosely refer to as earnest money, but in Hebrew culture conveys more the idea of a pledge of covenant, a security given as a guarantee that the deal will go through, though we only receive part payment at the beginning. See ערב for the related Hebrew stem indicating “pledge.”

[metmom]

If God does not live in temples made by human hands, He certainly does NOT live in a little white wheat wafer made by the Catholic church.

Jesus dwells in our hearts by faith, with our bodies being the temple of the Holy Spirit.

I’d rather have Jesus in my heart 24/7 than in my digestive tract when I eat Him every once in a while.

[metmom]

They did their own will and projected in onto God. Sorry for their cross of infertility (not unconnected sometimes to years of contraceptive use; another grave evil so many of Christ’s followers erroneously think he’s okay with because they’re deceived by the devil and dominated by the world), but not every idea that pops into our head nor every good feeling is the voice of God.

Just wow....

A couple is dealing with infertility and you imply that it's because of sin in their lives involving alleged, presumed contraceptive use?

You have no knowledge of the causes of their infertility and to pass judgment on them knowing neither them nor their health history, is beyond reprehensible. It's slander, plain and simple.

Your holier-than-thouness is showing.

Shame on you for that kind of spiritual pride and judgment.

[metmom]

Show us where Scripture tells us that members of ANY denomination are Christians because of the church they attend.

[metmom]

And this is the guy the RC’s put forth as being some kind of wonderful convert, cross the Tiber story?

They have to dig that hard and go that low to find someone to convince others that non-Catholic *authorities* are flocking the Catholicism in droves?

It’s deceit, plain and simple, and no surprise, considering the course.

[Gamecock]

Seems they have made him a Rock Star. Rock stars fail.

Typical when you have a tradition that parades saints out in front of the hoi polloi as role models worthy of adoration.

[RnMomof7]

Not everyone who belongs to a church is part of Christ’s Body, His Church.

A fact missed by Romanists

[paladinan]

He was essentially a dishonest fraud getting around IRS taxes.

Your raw opinion is noted and logged. Unless you can prove that his ordination was invalid (and not simply failing to live up to your personal tastes), your case is empty, here... and you're just besmirching a man's good name without cause.

[paladinan]

Note the part about being secretly ordained.

Can you show me where it was "secret"? I see the word "private" (even in the account of the blog author who doesn't seem to have much good to say about Dr. Hahn), but not "secret". Do you have another document which you can show us, or are you simply using the word "secret" because it sounds more sinister and pejorative?

That is NOT the way it happens in a real Presbyterian church.

...populated with REAL Scotsmen! (Your choice to use that fallacy in this instance is actually pretty apropos, given where many Presbyterians trace their heritage...)

A teaching elder is called by the congregation and ordained publicly.

In many cases, yes. In this case, no. Apparently, you have proof that this constitutes an invalid ordination? I'd love to see it... especially since the Presbyterians themselves are strongly divided on the general issue.

Rome got what it deserved when they brought Hahn on board. A fraud from a sham of a church.

Base rubbish. Insults and slurs are the last refuge of one who has no real argument.

[paladinan]

Show us where Scripture tells us that members of ANY denomination are Christians because of the church they attend.

Straw man. First of all, "Show us where Scripture [etc.] " is only compelling for sola Scriptura adherents... and since sola Scriptura is unbiblical, self-contradictiory and man-made, no one needs to bother about satisfying its artificial requirements. Second, who's claiming that anyone is a Christian because of the church they attend? I'm not. I know of many people who don't even claim to be Christian, who attend once or twice out of curiosity (and some of them convert); I know of others who are not validly baptized, but who still attend.

[metmom]

Second, who's claiming that anyone is a Christian because of the church they attend?

Some of your Catholic cohorts who keep telling us that all Catholics are Christians and all Christians are Catholics, even if they don't know it yet.

And your Catholic cohorts who keep telling us that they're Christian and born again because of being baptized into the Catholic church.

[paladinan]

Just wow.... A couple is dealing with infertility and you imply that it's because of sin in their lives involving alleged, presumed contraceptive use?

1) Did you miss the qualifying word "sometimes"?

2) Why are you assuming that those who are using an evil technique are necessarily SINNING? MDLION never said anything of the sort. For a sin to be committed, three things need to happen: (a) the person needs to do something morally wrong; (b) the person needs to KNOW (sufficiently) that it's wrong; and (c) the person needs to choose (with sufficient freedom) to do it anyway. It's quite possible (and all too common) for people to be so brainwashed by the culture that they genuinely don't know that the evil thing is evil. (How many Protestants remember that contraception is evil? Not many. Before 1930, they all knew; now... not so much.) Your assumption that the couple was sinning, and your assumption that MDLION was accusing them of having sin on their souls, was rather judgmental and rash of you.

You have no knowledge of the causes of their infertility and to pass judgment on them knowing neither them nor their health history, is beyond reprehensible. It's slander, plain and simple.

There's no need for dramatics. No slander was committed (see above) in that comment; and it's a plain fact that IVF *is* evil; and it's a plain fact that (as seemed to be MDLION's original point) those who claim that "the Holy Spirit is leading them" may be dead wrong, no matter WHAT they think Scripture says.

Besides... if you're worried about slander, perhaps you might take a gander at what they're saying about Dr. Hahn, up-thread...

Your holier-than-thouness is showing.

And I'll say it again: "Irony, thy name is metmom."

Shame on you for that kind of spiritual pride and judgment.

Right back at you, FRiend. You have NO RIGHT to pass judgmet and accuse MDLION (or anyone else on this forum) of spiritual pride (and I'd be curious how you know--without reading minds and hearts--that anyone's being proud, rather than sincerely disagreeing with you, for example). Shame on you. Again: are you trying to score points for the most ironic statements made in a single thread?

[paladinan]

[paladinan]
Second, who's claiming that anyone is a Christian because of the church they attend?

[metmom] Some of your Catholic cohorts who keep telling us that all Catholics are Christians and all Christians are Catholics, even if they don't know it yet.

So... those issues aside (and are you sure you understand those ideas properly?), what does that have to do with the "church they ATTEND"? Attendance without commitment is largely meaningless.

And your Catholic cohorts who keep telling us that they're Christian and born again because of being baptized into the Catholic church.

You'll have to make up your mind: are you talking about ATTENDANCE, or are you talking about BAPTISM? Someone who's validly baptized IS a Christian, even if he never darkens the door of a place of worship again. (He may be a *bad* Christian, but Baptism's mark on the soul is indelible; it doesn't go away with age.)

[CynicalBear]

>>Your raw opinion is noted and logged. Unless you can prove that his ordination was invalid (and not simply failing to live up to your personal tastes), your case is empty, here... and you're just besmirching a man's good name without cause.<<

Making comments like that without reading the source material is really not wise.

[CynicalBear]

>>but Baptism's mark on the soul is indelible; it doesn't go away with age.<<

And that idea came from where?? Is that one of those made up by Rome deals?

[Not gonna take it anymore]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+6%3A32-70&version=NIV

John 6:32-70

Read it and try to understand.

What, you don’t believe Jesus? He’s God.

[CA Conservative]

Most of Catholicism is biblical,

And thus, some of Catholicism isn't - just as with some Protestant doctrines.

You can make a good case that the doctrine of the Trinity is also unbiblical.

I'd be interested to know the context of this statement. I know some arguments on this topic, but I'd be interested in knowing which ones you are referencing here, and your thoughts on the matter.

[CynicalBear]

>>What, you don’t believe Jesus? He’s God.<<

We do believe what Jesus said. Why don't Catholics? Jesus said His words were spirit that the flesh profits nothing.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

Jesus would have been sinning by encouraging Jews to eat blood. Did the Jesus you believe in sin?

[verga]

Well said. They won’t get it or they will make completely ridiculous replies, but they needed to hear it.