Rejecting Mariology

Two-Edged Sword ^ | February 05, 2007 | Lee

[paladinan]

Now there are two bets...The 2nd one on who it is that runs to the moderator...

What is that saying, again, about stones and glass houses?

[ealgeone]

>Please, no more one verse theology.<

:) Hm. Does that apply to the Protestant side, as well? (I'm thinking of the relentless Protestant appeals to John 6:63 in a desperate attempt to cancel out the entire remainder of John 6, and the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist...)

Again, context is the key to understanding John 6.

[ealgeone]

I believe this is your comment:

“Mary, for example, doesn’t need to handle “millions of prayers per second” (those are scare quotes, not direct quotes, BTW); she has all eternity in which to respond to them.”

This is why so much of roman catholic thinking is called into question.

[verga]

Difference between the two is that Christians don't assign false titles to Mary nor do we worship Mary.

Wrong on both counts.You havde been told the truth repeatedly and reject it at your own risk.

Have a good day

[paladinan]

You can ask iscool to pray for you as they are a person here on earth and this would be in line with the examples we have in the NT;

Hold on. Unless you can show that the NT insists that "we must always limit ourselves to examples which are explicitly found in the NT", then this idea is dead in the water. "Sola Scriptura" is an unbiblical, self-contradictory, provably false tradition of men, and no one is obliged to follow it, much less use it as a "mandatory standard" when making arguments about the Faith.

but you do not pray TO iscool; just as we do not pray TO Mary.

See my previous comment, re: the original (and core) meaning of the word "pray" (i.e. "to ask"); the modern restriction of "pray" to "God alone" is a Protestant innovation, and it's--with all due respect--a thoughtless and self-serving one.

Neither of the last two would be examples found in the NT.

Really?

"Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you." (Acts 27:34, KJV)

The writers of the KJV, at least, knew the proper original meaning of the word. But why restrict yourself to the NT?

Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; (Genesis 12:13)

And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren. (Genesis 13:8--by the way, there's a reference of "brethren" not referring to "siblings", as an extra bonus!)

(etc.--there are over 50 occurrences of the specific phrase "I pray thee" in the KJV, alone)

[verga]

I'll stay with Paul's admonition to consider anyone who teaches something they didn't to be accursed.

You mean like Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, OSAS? Becaseu no one ever taught that until the 116th or 17th Century.

[Elsie]

my name for them:

Westboro Wing of the Free Republic Evangelical Dispensationlist Caucus of the Free Repubulic Religious Forum

Anathema is much less typing...

[Elsie]

That Catholic Church doesn’t even know where she was buried.

You have proof of her death?

I think it has been. determined she is in the same place that Moses is interred

[Elsie]

You have proof of her death?

John 21:25
JesusMary did many other things as well. If every one were all written down, I suppose the whole world could not contain the books ...

[MHGinTN]

I’m not a Catholic, so I didn’t know that. Thanks for writing, but it still cannot answer the question which will go unanswered because there is no provable answer, this side of the resurrection to come.

[Elsie]

Mind reading again?

Listening to 3 Portuguese children is better?

[RaceBannon]

nice try, but Biblically wrong

The Bible clearly says Jesus had brothers and maybe sisters

[ealgeone]

>Difference between the two is that Christians don't assign false titles to Mary nor do we worship Mary. <

Wrong on both counts.You havde been told the truth repeatedly and reject it at your own risk.

We're about to see another roman catholic who has no idea what his/her denomination has to say about Mary.

Let's see what titles roman catholics have given Mary.

Note that the below listing does not include the following attributed to Mary by the roman catholic church:

co-redemtrix

advocate

helper

I would note that the Holy Spirit is our Advocate and Helper and that Jesus, and only Jesus, is our Redeemer.

There is currently a movement to proclaim a fifth marion dogma that would make the above three titles "official" dogma of the roman catholic church. If this is passed it would take on a new level of blasphemy.

The Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary is a Marian litany originally approved in 1587 by Pope Sixtus V. It is also known as the Litany of Loreto, for its first-known place of origin, the Shrine of Our Lady of Loreto (Italy), where its usage was recorded as early as 1558.

The litany contains many of the titles used formally and informally for the Virgin Mary, and would often be recited as a call and response chant in a group setting.

Holy Mary,

pray for us.

Holy Mother of God,

Holy Virgin of virgins,

Mother of Christ,

Mother of the Church,

Mother of divine grace,

Mother most pure,

Mother most chaste,

Mother inviolate,

Mother undefiled,

Mother most amiable,

Mother admirable,

Mother of good counsel,

Mother of our Creator,

Mother of our Saviour,

Mother of mercy,

Virgin most prudent,

Virgin most venerable,

Virgin most renowned,

Virgin most powerful,

Virgin most merciful,

Virgin most faithful,

Mirror of justice,

Seat of wisdom,

Cause of our joy,

Spiritual vessel,

Vessel of honour,

Singular vessel of devotion,

Mystical rose,

Tower of David,

Tower if ivory,

House of gold,

Ark of the covenant,

Gate of heaven,

Morning star,

Health of the sick,

Refuge of sinners,

Comfort of the afflicted,

Help of Christians,

Queen of Angels,

Queen of Patriarchs,

Queen of Prophets,

Queen of Apostles,

Queen of Martyrs,

Queen of Confessors,

Queen of Virgins,

Queen of all Saints,

Queen conceived without original sin,

Queen assumed into heaven,

Queen of the most holy Rosary,

Queen of families,

Queen of peace.

http://www.vatican.va/special/rosary/documents/litanie-lauretane_en.html

[Mrs. Don-o]

No, because "hyperdulia" does not contradict Scripture. It derives from it.

The whole idea of "giving honor to whom hnor is due" presupposes an ordered array of honors, including "honor your father and your mother," honring those in civil authority, etc. which each one having its due measure, and none of them impinging on the supreme honor due to God alone.

As for the supreme honor due to God, here's part of how we express it in Catholicism. It would be wrong ("Latria") to apply the Gloria to Mary:

Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.

We praise you,
we bless you,
we adore you,
we glorify you,
we give you thanks for your great glory,
Lord God, heavenly King,
O God, almighty Father.

Lord Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son,
Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us;
you take away the sins of the world,
receive our prayer;
you are seated at the right hand of the Father,
have mercy on us.

For you alone are the Holy One,
you alone are the Lord,
you alone are the Most High,
Jesus Christ,
with the Holy Spirit,
in the glory of God the Father.

Amen.

[verga]

And Catholic Still don’t Worship Mary, That is reserved for God ALONE. Repeating a falsity will NEVER make it true.

[Elsie]

But some so-called church "fathers" saw marriage and its relations as unclean.

 

Well...

Leviticus 15:16

'Now if a man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening.

 

Leviticus 15:32

This is the law for the one with a discharge, and for the man who has a seminal emission so that he is unclean by it,

 

Leviticus 20:18

If there is a man who lies with a menstruous woman and uncovers her nakedness, he has laid bare her flow, and she has exposed the flow of her blood; thus both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

 

Leviticus 22:4

'No man of the descendants of Aaron, who is a leper or who has a discharge, may eat of the holy gifts until he is clean And if one touches anything made unclean by a corpse or if a man has a seminal emission,

 

Deuteronomy 23:10

"If there is among you any man who is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, then he must go outside the camp; he may not reenter the camp.

[Elsie]

I really meant it only as a descriptive.

Like ANATHEMA?

[ealgeone]

Hold on. Unless you can show that the NT insists that "we must always limit ourselves to examples which are explicitly found in the NT", then this idea is dead in the water.

As far as any of your thinking goes, I refer back to this bit of "logic".

“Mary, for example, doesn’t need to handle “millions of prayers per second” (those are scare quotes, not direct quotes, BTW); she has all eternity in which to respond to them.”

If this is really the best you can come up with to defend praying to Mary, I dismiss the remainder of your speculations.

Regarding "pray thee", check out the wording in the Greek. Then you'll have your answer on this.

[ealgeone]

And Catholic Still don’t Worship Mary, That is reserved for God ALONE. Repeating a falsity will NEVER make it true.

Let's see....you just got schooled on your false statement that catholics don't assign false titles to Mary and you double down on this. Hilarious!

Keep that business in mind about not worshipping Mary as you light your incense and candles and kneel before your idol of Mary as you pray TO her.

[MHGinTN]

Beautifully revealed! Thank you for the clear unfolding of the Greek.