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To: MHGinTN
>>Okay, if you like, show me how this contradicts scripture.<<

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

2 Samuel 14:14 Like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be recovered, so we must die.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

No one has gone to heaven yet.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

>>Not how you can make some inference based upon what is normative for the rest of humankind<<

What's "normative for the rest of humankind" holds unless there is specific exceptions noted.

>>(well, except Tabitha, and Lazarus, and the widows son, etc).<<

As I said, "unless there is specific exceptions noted". Besides, Jesus said the little girl was not dead.

Mark 5:39 He went in and said to them, "Why all this commotion and wailing? The child is not dead but asleep."

And this is what He said about Lazarus.

John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Now, do we understand totally? No. What we do know is that all men die. If any circumstances around their being raised or in the case of Elijah and Elisha the scripture clearly mentions the aberrations. Mary died and she is NOT in heaven yet.

233 posted on 03/24/2015 1:08:32 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear
There is much ambiquity in the term 'death' or dead. Jesus illustrated this when He told His disciples to 'let THE dead go bury the dead', referring to the youngman who pleaded that he could not join the disciples until his father died.

The temporal reality of the spirit and soul is different from that of the body, which dissolves with physical death. The death Jesus instructs His disciples to be wary of is spiritual death, the finality of which will separate eternally the souls Jesus refers to in 'depart from me, I never knew you'.

With knowledge of the temporal difference for the soul when separated from the body, the best way to refer to that state is 'asleep', since the soul separated from the body, as in sleep, would not be aware of time passage for the physical realm. As such, we have Biblical scenes where someone is 'translated' to a different realm than the physical spacetime of the physical body, but not so high as 'Heaven'. The ambiguity is complicated by the terms used for 'paradise', 'third Heaven', etc. So, to claim that Mary cannot be anywhere except 'asleep' in separation from the physical body is at best ambiguously framed. The realm into which Jesus entered upon leaving the tomb was even described by Him as 'not yet ascended unto my father' yet somehow unsensed by those still in this physical 3D realm.

There are many portions of the Bible which I believe are poorly understood, and the reality of several realms that are not Heaven and not 'this earthly sphere' is one such area of debate.

All that said, I do not fully accept your declaration regarding the where/when of Mary, IF God chose to bring her out of our 4D spacetime and into a separate, real, spacetime so that her body would not see corruption. And I'm certain you are aware of the 'two witnesses' who will be sent from Heaven and will be murdered and their bodies lie in the open for three days before being resurrected. The soul of those two may not be in a where/when now that is Heaven, but rather in a where/when that exists between Heaven and our realm.

In any event, I don't mean to drag you into an uncomfortable discussion. Have a pleasant afternoon and thank you for sharing your Bible verses with us.

239 posted on 03/24/2015 1:34:54 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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