“I do...”
And Jews say the same thing.
And all Christians say the same thing.
And Muslims say the same thing. The Catechism takes Jews, Christians and Muslims at their word on this. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Do Muslims Worship the Same God Catholics Do?
Tim Staples
May 30, 2014
CCC 841, quoting the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium 16, from Vatican II, declared:
The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.
Some will say this declaration does not indicate Muslims believe in the same God we do because it only says “Muslims… profess to hold the faith of Abraham,” not that they actually do. So what gives?
The Council fathers were certainly careful to say Muslims “profess…” but not that they “profess” to believe in one God. It says they “profess to hold the faith of Abraham.” “The faith of Abraham” involves more than simply acknowledging that God is one. CCC 59-64 teaches that “the faith of Abraham” includes:
“The people descended from Abraham” who “would be the trustee of the promise made to the patriarchs, the chosen people, called to prepare for that day when God would gather all his children into the unity of the Church” (CCC 60).
The Catechism goes on to point out that the people who possess the true “faith of Abraham” include:
“the patriarchs, prophets, and certain other Old Testament figures” who “have been and always will be honored as saints in all the Church’s liturgical traditions” (CCC 61).
Paragraphs 63-64 in the Catechism continue:
Israel is the priestly people of God, “called by the name of the Lord,” and “the first to hear the world of God,” the people of ‘elder brethren’ in the faith of Abraham. (64) Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all… a salvation which will include all the nations. Above all, the poor and humble of the Lord… as Sarah, Rebecca, Miriam, Deborah, Hannah, Judith, and Esther… The purest figure among them is Mary.
Muslims could hardly be included in this number.
However, it is a distortion to claim from this that Muslims do not truly believe in the one true God because it was clearly after having said Muslims “profess to hold the faith of Abraham,” that the Council fathers then declared: “… together with us they adore the one, merciful God…”
These are two distinct declarations:
1. [Muslims] profess to hold the faith of Abraham.
2. Together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.
CCC 841 also references Vatican II’s Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions, Nostra Aetate, 3, that makes the teaching of the Council perhaps even clearer:
The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God.
Once again, we see first the declaration that Muslims “adore the one God...” made without qualification. Then, the fathers say “Islam link[s] itself” to Abraham. This is not saying there is a link; rather, it is saying Muslim make that link. Once again, we have two clearly distinct declarations.
Is the Muslim God Our God?
There are many things taught in Islam that are so radically opposed to what we believe as Catholic Christians, that some will say, “Well, perhaps they believe in one God, but the ‘one God’ they believe in is not the same God we believe in because, for example, the Koran teaches:
Women are inferior to men (Sura 4:34)
Men can, and even should, ‘beat’ their wives in some circumstances (Sura 4:34).
Belief in the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ is false (Sura 4:157-159).
Belief in the divinity of Christ is blasphemy (Sura 5:72).
Belief in Jesus Christ as ‘the Son of God’ is grave error (Sura 19:35; 10:68).
Muslims are commanded to ‘fight against’ Christians and all who disagree with them. Sura 9:29 says:
Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor follow the Religion of Truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
God wills moral as well as physical evil. In fact, Sura 37:94 says, ‘He [Allah] created you as well as what you do,’ whether good or evil.
‘God does not love the unbelievers’ (Sura 3:32).
And this is just to name a few areas of major disagreement. We could write volumes on the problems with Muslim doctrine.”
Many claim there is a point where errors regarding what “the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth” teaches become so far removed from the truth that it becomes necessary to say that God being spoken of is no longer “God” at all. My take is that as long as a person understands the basic metaphysical truth that God is “the one, merciful God,” then errors concerning what God has said, or what he has revealed about his inner life are simply errors about those things, not about God as the one, true God.
Some will argue that if someone presents, for example, their “God” as teaching the rape of small children to be okay, then that God is not God at all. And that, I would argue, is true. It could be argued that that “God” would suffer from a moral defect, and therefore, could not be God.
But even if it is possible for a person (or a faith, like Islam) to claim belief in the one true God, but so distort what God teaches that he (or it) ceases to truly believe in the “one true God” in reality, then, according to the Church, Islam has not reached that point in its errors.
Thus, we Catholics have to be careful to distinguish between the fact that Muslims believe in the one true God “living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,” and the fact that they get it wrong—profoundly wrong—when it comes to both who God has revealed himself to be in the New Testament, and what he has taught his people.
We pull no punches as Catholics when it comes to pointing out the errors of Islam. But we also need to begin by getting it right concerning the things about which we agree.
Ask a Saint – He Knows
Pope St. John Paul II strikes the balance beautifully, concisely, and without compromise between acknowledging what Muslims get right, and challenging where they go wrong, in his excellent book, Crossing the Threshhold of Hope. After pointing out that the Church has a “high regard for Muslims who worship one God, living and subsistent, merciful and omnipotent, the Creator of heaven and earth,” he then observes after reflecting on Islam and the Koran:
Whoever knows the Old and New Testaments, and then reads the Koran, clearly sees the process by which it completely reduces Divine Revelation. It is impossible not to note the movement away from what God said about Himself, first in the Old Testament through the Prophets, and then finally in the New Testament through His Son. In Islam all the richness of God’s self-revelation, which constitutes the heritage of the Old and New Testaments, has definitely been set aside. Some of the most beautiful names in the human language are given to the God of the Koran, but He is ultimately a God outside of the World, a God who is only Majesty, never Emmanuel, God-with-us. Islam is not a religion of redemption. There is no room for the Cross and the Resurrection(p. 92).
St. John Paul first acknowledges the truth that Muslims get it right when they profess faith in one God. Then, and only then, does he point out they have it as wrong as wrong can be when it comes to what God has revealed to us in Scripture about who he is, and, I would add, what he asks of his people by way of his commandments.
http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/do-muslims-worship-the-same-god-catholics-do
And all Christians say the same thing.
And Muslims say the same thing. The Catechism takes Jews, Christians and Muslims at their word on this. There’s nothing wrong with that.
I know Jews do.. and Christians do... But Mohammedans DO NOT. That is the issue. It doesn't matter HOW much the Roman Catholic Cult wants to try to justify its non-justifiable position, it does NOT change FACT.
Do you think the God of Abraham teaches us kill infidels (although if Rome does, it's a mighty convenient explanation for the Inquisitions)? Do you think the God of Abraham sanctions child abuse? Do you think the God of Abraham teaches that Jews are to be murdered? That's what the Mohammedan's "God of Abraham" teaches.
Now... square THAT with the one true, living God... THE God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David... who set the Jews apart for himself...
So go ahead and post the spin of somebody trying hard to prove that right is wrong and dark is light... what does 841 SAY?:
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
So...start spinning. I want to hear it. This has nothing to do with how someone in the Roman Cult interprets the word "profess" (hmmm... sounds oddly like Bill Clinton and his wandering definition of "is"...) -- nothing -- read on where it says and I've highlighted:
"...those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims...."
Now. How does Rome interpret "the Creator" -- are there two? How many are there? Is not THE Creator, God Almighty, Yaweh, THE God of Abraham? Hmm? I believe He is! And, here in all of it's apostate glory is the Roman Catholic Church TEACHING that Muslims believe in the same "Creator" as Catholics! YOU CANNOT SPIN THIS. It's right there, in black and white.
But wait! There's more!
"...and together with us they adore the one, merciful God,"
Did you catch that? "...together WITH US [that's all of the Roman Catholic Cultists out there] they [that would be the Mohammedans] adore the one, merciful God,"
This one is really going to be tough for you. So... in the CCC, Rome TEACHES that Catholics and Muslims "adore the one, merciful God."
Which one? The one of one type of profession, or some other type of professed god? Because, I'm here to tell you, it's saying that you BOTH believe in the same god.
Muslims don't believe in Yahweh. They don't believe that Christ is the Son of God. But the Roman Catholic Church says that Catholics and Muslims adore the one merciful God.
Rome is hoist on its own petard. You cannot have it both ways. And the apostasy and heresy is right there in it's own Catechism, being taught as truth.
So... explain to me again how Rome does not teach falsehood? And while you're at it, do try to justify how Rome doesn't believe in the same false god of Islam -- it teaches that Rome does, so fit that in with the whole "doesn't teach falsehood" thing you've got going.
Hoss