"Jesus was there (Luke 10:16) talking to the "seventy-two others" that He appointed wasn't He. He was NOT talking to the original 12 apostles.
Yes. Did I say anything different?
"The Holy Spirit is given to all true believers.(Acts 15:8)"
Yes. Did I say anything different? "All true believers" are also guarantors of doctrine in the Church. This is called the Sensus fidelium, "the sense of the faithful."
Nevertheless,there are different gifts for different people in the Church, because it fits many different members together in one Body, not like a bucket of identical zooplankton, but differentiated: so the members, though equal, are not identical. St. Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 12, is rich with this beautiful teaching and rewards receptive reading: it's one of my favorites. Let me give you this section:
Now you are Christ’s body,I think it's pretty clear that there are manyy, diverse gifts, and the differently-gifted persons God has "appointed" in the Church to serve different functions.
and individually parts of it.
Some people God has appointed in the church to be,
first, apostles;
second, prophets;
third, teachers;
then, mighty deeds;
then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration,
and varieties of tongues.
Are all apostles?
Are all prophets?
Are all teachers?
Do all work mighty deeds?
Do all have gifts of healing?
Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
>>"If they refuse to listen even to the Church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector." - Matthew 18:17<<... Unfortunately the Catholic Church has so corrupted the meaning of the word ekklesia that it's unrecognisable to what the true meaning is.
Aha. So tell us: when you have a dispute with a believer---let's say you have a dispute with me --- where do YOU go with the disputant to get a ruling?
">>"The Church of the living God, the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth." - 1 Timothy 3:5<<... Pillars and foundations hold things up they don't create or make things up.
True! Agreed!
>>"You are Peter; and upon this Rock I will build My Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. - Matt. 16:18<<... "How often does it have to be shown that Peter is NOT who the ekklesia is built upon?"
Sure, the Church is built on "Rock" because of Peter's FAITH. How often do you have to read that verse before you figure out there's a reason why Jesus renamed this guy "Rock"?
"You still haven't shown where what the Catholic Church teaches as "tradition" is what the apostles taught."
Since you won't listen to the Church --- not only in the sense of "Roman" as you say, but in the sense of "What all of Christendom believes" --- historic Christianity --- because you do not "venerate anything on this earth," including the evangelical fidelity, spiritual depth, and fearless love of God found in the early Fathers of the Church who transmitted the true Traditions --- you reflexively set aside all evidence.
I have never once seen you defend Tradition in any form, even though St. Paul wrote, "Stand firm and hold to the traditions you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us." You don't don't defend or explain that except to explain it away.
This is just sad.
If you're willing to fairly explore the Tradition instead of preemptively kicking it to the curb, I would recommend the Fathers of the Church. Specifically: This is an introductory YouTube clip that will cost you just 4 minutes of your time:
Mike Aquilina on the early Church fathers --- just a first, thought-provoking taste.
I know you'll want more in-depth, so I recommend:
The Fathers of the Church by Mike Aquilina, and Jesus, the Apostles, and the Early Church by Pope Benedict XVI.
They're both available for under $10 at the link.
I hope you will find it enlightening and gratifying to explore YOUR faith-family tree. This is your family: let nobody be estranged.
I'm afraid it's not as much as you would like to portray. You see, there is no such thing as "apostolic succession" the way the Catholic Church would like to have us believe. When Jesus said "he that heareth you heareth Me" He was was talking to those He had sent to spread the gospel message. That includes all of us not just apostles. When you initially posted that verse it was to support your belief in the "church" being an "infallible source". Twisting the words to make it look like we agree is disingenuous.
>>Aha. So tell us: when you have a dispute with a believer---let's say you have a dispute with me --- where do YOU go with the disputant to get a ruling?<<
When Jesus said "If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church" it was in the context of each of the local assemblies being treated as separate entities. We see that distinctly in the seven letters to the seven ekklisias in Revelation. Therefore, you question about a difference between you and me is moot. The only time that would be appropriate and applicable is with someone within the assembly that I meet with. The person who refuses to listen would not be allowed to meet with us any longer.
>>How often do you have to read that verse before you figure out there's a reason why Jesus renamed this guy "Rock"?<<
Peter was called a movable or unstable stone. The unmovable bedrock that the ekklesia is built on is Christ. We can see how unstable Peter was in his denial of Christ three times and his unstableness when dining with Jews for which Paul had to correct him.
>>I have never once seen you defend Tradition in any form,<<
Not if it's not supported by scripture. Why would I? I'm not so gullible as to believe that fallible men can keep a story pure through 2000 years without having it written down. Just the subject of indulgences proves that the Catholic Church lies.
>>St. Paul wrote, "Stand firm and hold to the traditions you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us."<<
You haven't proven that what the Catholic Church teaches is what the apostles taught. I stand firm on what the apostles taught as recorded in scripture. Catholics, Muslims, and Mormons stand firm on what some fallible men concocted.
>>If you're willing to fairly explore the Tradition instead of preemptively kicking it to the curb<<
I've explored some of your "traditions" Mrs. Don-o. When I compare them to scripture and what the apostles taught I find them abhorrent and blasphemous. As I said earlier. The more I learn of the Catholic Church the more abhorrent it becomes.