Three Things You're Probably Getting Wrong about Praying to the Saints

Shameless popery ^ | April 20, 2015

[Iscool]

What do you think it was when your pope prayed TO Mary for saving his life??? Here's a hint:

2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

The same as all of you do when you pray TO Mary and your saints...You drop down to your knees in prayer...Prayer is worship...

[Iscool]

When Catholics use "prayer" in reference to the saints they are using it in the sense of the intransitive definition #1: "to make a request in a humble manner." And the request is that they pray to God for us. To insist that it means "worship" when this is not the intention of the speaker is to bear false witness. I would expect better from one who claims to be a Christian.

And what is it when the request is NOT that they pray to God for you, but provide for you without the aid of God???

[Iscool]

There is a “Prayer for Relief” in every complaint filed in every court in the country. Pretty sure they aren’t “worshipping” the judges.

Likely not, but they are appealing to the one who makes judgment...It's not God's fault that they stretch the meaning of prayer...

[mlizzy]

Can't be a Catholic thread without knocking Protestants!

After reading this thread (and being on Free Republic since '08), I feel some Catholics do enjoy coming down on Protestants intentionally. I can only think the saints are praying passionately for us all.

[FourtySeven]

Do you, as a catholic, accept this part of catholic tradition?

Speaking for myself: Yes.

Veni Sancti Spiritus. Veni per Mariam.

[FourtySeven]

You may find this of interest.

http://archivio.traces-cl.com/otto01/ptn.htm

[FateAmenableToChange]

When Catholics say that they pray to the saints they are using the legitimate meaning of making a request, i.e. for the saints to pray to God for us. To suggest that Catholics mean anything else is to bear false witness.

Then there are a lot of Catholics bearing false witness. I'm sorry, but historically Catholic prayer to saints has been presented as prayer to dead saints for the saints personally to intervene in the world. I get that it can be reformulated to a more scripturally sound basis. But the article in question seems to be presenting prayer to saints for saintly intervention as a valid and scripturally supported practice.

[CynicalBear]

>>THEY WERE WITNESSES TO US... NOT WITNESSING US<<

The Catholic Church has to twist that to fit their doctrine. When a lawyer takes a deposition from someone and the person dies the testimony of that witness is still permissible in court. We have the testimony of the faith of them all recorded in scripture so it is a witness to us.

[Elsie]

So we are speaking of the saints living in Heaven: not the dead, but the living.

Yes 'we' are.

Who will be rising from the graves at the last trump?

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St. Paul says (Romans 2:6, 10), "God will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good work,... there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, Jew first and then Greek."

 

Yup: after JUDGEMENT.

 

GOD will not be like the TSA and frequent flyers; who can (for a FEE) pay EXTRA to bypass the getting felt up line to board first.

 

Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE.   The dead  were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.

 

 

[Elsie]

This is about all believers' sharing in God's glory.

Nope...

Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another

[CynicalBear]

>>In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gives authority over his Church to Peter, to bind and loose: "Whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven."<<

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

[Elsie]

God is telling us the truth.< P>Then why does Rome want to bend it?

[Not gonna take it anymore]

Nothing changes here at all. Same people, same arguments, same bigotry and hatred.

Jesus may love us all but I’m pretty sure Jesus is NOT approving of the actions and speech of those of you who carry hatred and bigotry in your hearts.

You certainly should know who you are (after all your words speak so loudly) and so do the rest of us.

[Elsie]

Ephesians 2:6
And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms...

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If we keep this up; NOTHING will be literal in the NT!

[CynicalBear]

>>If you are praying to anyone besides God through Jesus, you are already doing it wrong<<

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Disrespecting God by going to someone else is not going to turn out well for Catholics.

[Elsie]

Dopey comment. She doesn't exist in a temporal world.

Perhaps; but have you ANY evidence to support this non-biblical concept?

[Elsie]

Don’t listen to that singing!

I hear ya!!

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(click)

Praise to the Man!

 

 

 

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

[CynicalBear]

>>Do you ask another believer to keep you when you need prayers from them in their prayers to Jesus/God?<<

Trying to get us to believe that all Catholics do is ask them to pray for you is futile. We have seen some of those prayers.

[FateAmenableToChange]

YOPIOS. By what authority do YOU interpret scripture?

This is really funny ... The magisterium has only "infallibly" interpreted a few verses of scripture.. every homily, every RC bible study, every RC apologist and every RC posting on FR are doing nothing more that YOPIOS ... and because of biblical ignorance have no idea what they are talking about

I am not going to rehash old ground over interpretation according to the inspiration of the holy spirit versus interpretation according to the RCC. But RnMomof7's comment deserves emphasis. The RCC has through history taught and then retracted several interpretations of scripture. Every church comprises human beings, all of whom are often likely to incorporate their own biases into their interpretations of scripture. When Christ says "you are Peter and on this rock I build my church," for example, I see something totally different than RCC adherents. Indulgences require a tortured interpretation, in my opinion. Mortification of the flesh through flagellation. Crusades against intra-RCC reformers in the 13th-16th centuries. Kings waiting on baptism until the end of life so as not to be burdened by sins committed after baptism. Purgatory was valid, and now is not. As RnMomof7 points out, the RCC has wisely not asserted infallibility on more scriptural interpretations. If they had, we would be looking at the Mormon problem of backtracking on polygamy and whether dark-skinned peoples can be members of the church.

Ultimately, the veneration of saints is a RCC tradition that as you describe it is not necessarily contrary to scripture. I don't agree with it, but I don't see your formulation violating core doctrines. And as models for believers' lives, many of the RCC's recognized saints are truly worthy of contemplation, respect, and emulation. OTOH, prayers to saints for those saints to intervene in the petitioner's lives does violate core doctrine because it gives glory to the dead saint rather than to God. But I think you agree with that, so it is not an issue. FATC

[Elsie]

Over 200 prayers, besides instruction on prayer to Heaven. (“Our Father who art in Heaven,” not “Out Mother.”)

WHAT!!??!!??

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Sirach 40:1

 

Great labour is created for all men,

and a heavy yoke is upon the children of Adam,

from the day of their coming out of their mother's womb,

until the day of their burial into the mother of all.

 

 

 

HMMMmmm... I thought Mary was...

 

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