Are you infallible?

One Fold ^ | December 10, 2013 | Brian Culliton

[RnMomof7]

It’s a question that requires little thought to answer; are you infallible? It ranks right up there with, “Are you God?” But to Catholic apologists the question is quite serious; that’s because they believe that there is a man on earth who, on the subject of faith and morals, is infallible; they call him, “holy father.” See, it does rank right up there with, “Are you God,” at least when coming from people who think their leader is equal with God on deciding issues of faith and morals.

According to Catholic apologist, John Martignoni, this question should cause Protestants to suddenly doubt everything they believe, and Catholics should take comfort in knowing they and only they, have an infallible leader here on earth. But how can they know? Is there one Catholic person out there, besides the pope of course, who will confess to being infallible? And if a Catholic is not infallible, how can he or she “know” their pope is infallible? They can’t! So if they cannot infallibly declare their pope to be infallible, then their assertion is nothing more than a fallible opinion. And if they are wrong, which my fallible counter-assertion says they are, then they are being deceived.

The logic that so often accompanies claims of papal infallibility goes something like this: “Jesus did not leave His people vulnerable to the doctrinal whims of competing leaders.”

The logic used is quite revealing; it indicates very strongly that those who use it have no idea what it means to have the gift of the Holy Spirit, because if they had the gift of the Holy Spirit they would not be looking to Rome for infallible direction. It also reveals that they think everyone else is like them, wanting to follow the whims of their leaders. It also denies the notion that Christ has relationship with man through the gift of the Holy Spirit. Their magisterium reserves that privilege for themselves and people buy into it. It’s no different than Mormons following their prophet in Utah.

The pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, but the Apostle Paul explicitly said that Christ is the head of His Church and He reconciles all things to Himself. To wit, Catholics will be quick to agree that Christ is the head, but then immediately contradict themselves by saying, “but He established the papacy through which He reveals His truths .” Based on what? If Christ is the head and we are the body, where does the papacy fit in? I see no evidence of this claim in Scripture or history, so if the evidence is not there the papacy must belong to a different body; one that is not associated with Christ and His church.

In his newsletter on his website where he shares chapter one of his new book, “Blue Collar Apologetics,” John Martignoni instructs his faithful followers to establish the fact that Protestants are not infallible early on in discussions with them. The purpose of doing this is to attempt to convince the Protestant that he could be wrong about what he believes. The funny thing is Martignoni never tells his readers what to do if the Protestant turns the question back on them; and that is most certainly what is likely to happen.

Does Martignoni really not see this coming, or is he simply at a loss for how to address it? Once a Catholic apologist is faced with admitting their own fallibility, they will immediately be forced to deal with the realization that their claim of papal infallibility is itself a fallible opinion; so they must, therefore, admit that they could be wrong as well. And once they realize the playing field is level, the evidence will do the talking.

A Catholic apologist who is willing to concede that his belief regarding papal infallibility is nothing more than a fallible opinion will likely ask another similar question, “What church do you belong to and how old is it?” In their minds this is the true “gotcha” question. They believe, in their fallible opinions of course, that they belong to the church founded by Christ nearly 2000 years ago. But the fact is, and yes it is a fact, there was no Roman Catholic Church 2000 years ago; it took a few hundred years for that to develop. Furthermore, by their own admission, the doctrines they hold equal in authority to the Bible, which they call “sacred traditions,” did not exist at the time of the apostles; that also is a fact.

There is something, however, that is clearly older than any Protestant or Roman Catholic Church and that is the written books of the Bible. If a person bases his or her faith on these written works then no supposed authority that came later can undermine the power of God working through them. It is unfortunate that when a person comes to Christ in faith through reading the Bible, that there are so-called Christians who come along to cast doubt in their minds. For example, in a tract on the Catholic Answers website called, “By What Authority,” it is stated, “In fact, not one book of the Bible was written for non-believers.”

Not according to the Apostle John who explicitly wrote, “These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name”? He did not say these are written because you believe; he said, these are written that you may believe. John’s gospel is a firsthand written testimony of the ministry of Jesus for the purpose of bringing people to Him, and Catholic apologists are telling us it was never John’s intention for us to become believers by reading it? Amazing; isn’t it? The Catholic Answers philosophy seems to be to make up facts rather than face them.

So for the sake of the next John Martignoni disciple who wants to ask me if I am infallible, the answer is no; and incidentally your answer to my identical question is also no. Thus I am not interested in your fallible opinion that your pope is infallible when speaking on faith and morals. Perhaps one of you can go tell Mr. Martignoni that chapter his one is incomplete, and that he might want to consider adding a realistic response to his question rather than a bunch of scenarios where the Protestant is simply dumbfounded. His current scenarios might have been fun for him to write, but they are only going to embarrass his readers when they go out armed with the Martignoni sword.

[Elsie]

Dang!

Some paper generator just posted a bunch of verses that did not mention electricity...

[Elsie]

BINGO

Over 1276 replies, so this must be a cover-all card.

[Elsie]

I really don't like calling anyone "completely clueless"--but anyone who says that the quote from Trent is "forbidding the purchase and reading of a Bible" is... just clueless.

Yeah!

How DARE they read plain English and not spin it!

[Elsie]

This is all word games...

You must have READ that somewhere...

---

2 Timothy 2:14
Remind others about these things, and warn them before God not to argue over words. Arguing does not do any good but only destroys those who are listening.

---

 

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,

' it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master - that's all.'  

[Elsie]

Aw...  shucks...

 

[Elsie]

Had it been in existence when Galatians was written, it would likely have been!

It Was!! It WAS!!!

Upon this rock...

[Elsie]

-— Scripture records the ordinations of bishops, priests, and deacons, by the laying on of hands by one of the Apostles and/or their successors/delegates. -—

I find it quite interesting the things folks do NOT post...

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.

[Elsie]

It HAS to be OSAS,

Oh, even Catholics won't argue this much.

We ALL claim that FAITH saves us.

Where we differ is in what KEEPS us!

Catholics claims it's works and rituals; while feelthy PROTs claim it is STILL faith.

[Elsie]

I know you spend so much time trying to fit Catholic beliefs into scripture but it doesn’t work.

---

My Prayer to Our Mother Mary

Hail and praise be unto thee, Mary, whom God Almighty has exalted above all of his other servants!!

God has entrusted us unto your care and graciously grants any request that you make of Him on our behalf, if it is in accordance with His Divine Will.

Our hearts burn with zeal as we honor you, Our Mother.

We love you as a child loves a mother and you love us as mother loves her children.

Please guide us, your little ones, to our Eternal and Almighty Father God through our prayers and through your love for us.

Many in this world may slander and degrade you while still claiming to exalt God, please forgive them and pray for them for they may dishearten your devoted children.

May we be made worthy of the promises of Christ through your prayers.

You love us so freely and we are so unworthy of it.

You love us because God and Christ loved us first.

Mary, Mother, I love you.

Amen.

 

 

- Foundation Marypages - 

Our foundation has the objective to develop, expand and maintain the Marypages website to promote the Roman Catholic belief and especially the Devotion of Our Blessed Mother, Mary.
With your financial support you will make this possible.
Marypages can only survive with your help!
You can become a donator of our foundation by donating at least 20 Euro per year. We will then offer you:

• Our Newsletter (1 time a year)

• A Miraculous Medal with explanation of its design

If your donation is 50 Euro or higher, then you will also receive a beautiful light blue rosary from Lourdes. In the rosary is a little holy water from the source in Lourdes.

Any extra income generated will be donated to compassionate projects with a Catholic basis. We are registered at the Chamber of Commerce Flevoland under number 39100629.

To make a donation, please click the button below.
God bless you.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

And the pathetic attempt at explaining the benefits of being single from Paul’s letters may make you feel better but it’s still not what he said was REQUIRED for elders and bishops. There are REQUIRED to be married with children they have raised.

Bah!

Where's the Sola Scripta stuff here?

[Elsie]

Rome does not get to redefine words

Wanna BET?

[Elsie]

I was so filthy I needed some one to save me from it...and THATS WHO JESUS WAS...

The Cornerstone

[Elsie]

I'm expecting double speak but no proof of it being rescinded.

Expectations: 1 Facts: 0

[Elsie]

This old canard of "the Catholic Church kept the Bible from people"

Any prohitions for Catholics to not get the Koran?

[Elsie]

They kept it Latin for a reason.

A VAST number STILL wishes it was this way today!

[Elsie]

I won't mention any names, but the guilty parties know who they are.

Someone posts something that is clearly bogus on FR; I will mention their name, along with evidence of bogusness!

[Elsie]

Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink,

Eucharist??

[Elsie]

With sure a great cloud of witnesses; why do they even TRY to keep pushing this stuff?

[Elsie]

With more charity, Scripture would lead to unity. That's what I would like to see.

As long as it is on ROME'S TERMS...

[Elsie]

No way the RCC would ever admit its understanding of Mary is wrong.

Sinless Mary??

 

 

Luke 2:22-24

 

When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord  (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”),  and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: “a pair of doves or two young pigeons.”

 

Leviticus 12:7-8

 

Then he shall offer it before the LORD and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female.
'But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.'"