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To: ealgeone
But you didn't "correct" me on Chaire, Kecharitomene, you gave me your opinion.

Similarly, I gave you my opinion; but mine was better founded. I said that "Chaire" (Hail) is used before either a name or a title; in English this name or title would usually be capitalized.

If you look up "Chaire" in a Bible Concordance (LINK) you'll see it's used 5 times in the NT, and each and every time it comes before a title: Rabbi, Master, King, King of the Jews, and Kecharitomene

Now turn your attention to this title "Kecharitomene." You'll find that this word is absolutely unique. It is used only once, to address Mary of Nazareth. The root word, "charitoo" (grace) is probably used hundreds of times in various combinations, but this form, "Kecharitomene," is not used at any other point in the NT ~or~ in the OT (for instance in the LXX Greek translation) ~or~ in any example of secular Greek literature.

That's why I was so painstaking about parsing the grammatical indicators.

The phrase "full of grace" (in English) is used, as I explained, of three NT persons (Stephen, Mary, and Jesus) and yet different terms are used in Greek in all three cases. A distinction is being made --- as one would expect, since they are related, but not equal or identical.

So I think my opinion of "Chaire Kecharitomene" is well-founded; and (so far!) neither you nor anybody else has yet been able to fault the grammatical analysis.

But perhaps you can do better with the grammar. I'm here to learn.

298 posted on 05/03/2015 11:55:51 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Point of accuracy.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
But perhaps you can do better with the grammar. I'm here to learn.

I've already posted just that.

Kecharitomene, no matter how much you want it to be, is not a title. It is a participle describing something happening to the noun....in this case Mary.

Rabbi....title.

Master....title.

King....title.

King of the Jews....title.

314 posted on 05/03/2015 4:48:31 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o; ealgeone
>>If you look up "Chaire" in a Bible Concordance (LINK) you'll see it's used 5 times in the NT, and each and every time it comes before a title:<<

So every time you say "greetings" or "hello" it's now a title?

>>The phrase "full of grace" (in English) is used, as I explained, of three NT persons (Stephen, Mary, and Jesus) and yet different terms are used in Greek in all three cases.<<

Oh really?

Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full,(plērēs) of grace (charitos) and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full (plērēs) of grace (charitos) and truth.

Full (plērēs)of grace (charitos)is never used in the case of Mary but identical terms are used for both Stephen and Christ. It's been shown here multiple times that in no way can the phrase "full of grace" be extracted from kecharitōmenē. It is clear that had the Holy Spirit intended to indicate Mary as "full of grace" He would have used the same phrase as He did for Stephen and Christ.

349 posted on 05/04/2015 5:43:58 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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