Posted on 06/09/2015 3:51:50 PM PDT by stockpirate
My questions pertain to the tribulation they are as follows:
1. If there is a rapture, does it happen before or after people start receiving the mark of the beast?
2. If before is there some event that happens prior to receiving the mark of the beast?
I'm not looking to debate if there is or isn't a rapture, just where in the progression of events people are forced to receive the mark of the beast and we move to a cashless world.
I wish I better understood what the “mark” is exactly. If
it’s a tattoo or some other permanent mark on your forehead, it should be pretty easy to spot and avoid. However, that’s seldom the way things work.
So you are of the mindset there is no rapture, we all go through it.
If tradition is correct we know Paul was not taken up alive as he seems to have been killed in Rome.
Very valid point.
I used to buy the rapture theory but in the one short scripture concerning the rapture Paul uses the word WE, meaning also himself.
If tradition is correct we know Paul was not taken up alive as he seems to have been killed in Rome.
fairly certain the mark on the forehead is ‘how you think (where your head’s at) and the mark on the hand is the ‘work you do’. Do you think evil and do the work of evil...
It can be on the forehead or arm, some believe it is the microchip mentioned in the healthcare bill.
I believe the parable of the wheat and tares succinctly lays out that we are harvested at the same time.
“Why would a mark be needed if there are no believers left?”
Oh, stop it. You will spoil their escapism.
It means that they only become believers after the rapture. There will still be tons and tons of material out there about Jesus Christ and people will seek it out after the rapture.
you silly goose....it’s REVELATION not revelations.
sorry you can’t substantiate your point. gotta be frustrating for you.
[So where in the Bible does it actually say that people are going to disappear? And which version of the Bible says that]
I Corinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
I Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
II Thessoloanians 2:
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
why would God tell believers to be the light of the world and witness His truth to others and then decide to ditch those ‘others’ when the darkest time of history comes?
Everyone had their chance and those left behind rejected Jesus. There are consequences.
No. The tares are gathered first.
same time, one after the other:
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Ping
I believe the parable of the wheat and tares succinctly lays out that we are harvested at the same time.
There are so much scripture which refutes the idea of being raptured up alive.
Except for that, I think you do pretty good otherwise.
Here’s a scripture that says some will be alive; my argument is that we are caught up, raptured, at the same time Christ returns. There is no 7 year or 3.5 yr period of non believers languishing on earth, stumbling around and ‘hoping’ to become believers.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 [Full Chapter]
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I was raised believing in the Rapture as taught in a Schofield church. However, when I met a brother in Christ who was a post-tribulationist I was overwhelmed with grief that a friend would actually not believe what I had learned to be the truth. I literally cried my heart out before God and asked Him only for His truth. I did my own study of the New Testament disregarding what I had been taught and listened to the words spoken by God.
I now do all my studies in the same manner and consider it taking Occam’s razor to the scriptures. God wants us all to understand what He says so if something isn’t easy to understand I simply wait till He will teach me.
Another thing I learned is that anything within commas as explanation should never be disregarded. One Sunday my pastor gave a message and one phrase within commas discounted the basis of his teaching. I always read the previous chapter before I listen to anyone so as to learn contextually. Why don’t people study the Bible the same way we study any work of literature?
Anyway. The resurrection of the dead is key. They precede the living in joining the King in the air. There are two resurrections, THE FIRST RESURRECTION is defined in Revelation. The sentence “This is the first resurrection” in Revelation 20 is rarely discussed.
Many, many people I know believe they will be resurrected at the return of Jesus and rule with Him, but that is a privilege granted only to those who are beheaded for their faith in Jesus and for not receiving the mark of the beast.
We tend to read individual books of the Bible assuming they are written chronologically. They are not all written that way.
1 Thessalonians should not ever be studied without 2 Thessalonians. The resurrection does not occur until after the man of lawlessness is revealed by himself declaring he is god.
I truly believe the pre-trib rapture theology will be used by the anti-Messiah to deceive many into thinking he is Jesus.
So, disregard what I just wrote and do a simple study of the New Testament using a translation that has a good reputation for translation being close to the original. Get a concordance, too. Ask for the truth and prepare to meet God now in your home.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.