Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
So, I post just the Bible verses which are the context for a single verse used out of context by someone, and add nothing to the Bible verse, and it results in mocking and derision of an imaginary issue. Such tactics arise from a lack of understanding.
Christ was speaking about those who find the narrow way, not a particular group of people and for the record, the lie that I laugh at Scripture or am mocking Scripture is just more of the same bad fruit that grows out of denying the power and perfection of the Holy Spirit.
But, that's Ok, don't answer my question.
That lack of an answer speaks volumes about what Self and Self Alone Protestantism is and it's not simply posting the context for a verse, it's avoiding the words of Christ Himself when those words don't fit with the neat, comfortable, little pretense of Christianity each Self builds to suit their own carnal mind.
Bringing forth good fruit is essential to Salvation as Christ Himself stated it in spite of Protestantism teaching that Christ was wrong and any requirement to bring forth good fruit is "works salvation".
There's not a Christian in the entire chapter...In fact, the apostles are told at that time to not even take this message to the Gentiles...
These Jews are living under the Law(s)...They must keep the laws...They must do good works...That's why you guys don't have a clue what to do with Eph. 2:8,9 and related verses given to the church...
YES, actually. I will here, prayerfully in the Spirit of Christ, recapitulate that list, with my "addition" indicated in boldface type:
1. Believe in Jesus Christ.Then, put your full faith and trust in our Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, the Word of the Beginning, and the Judge of the End: Logos Alpha to Omega.
2. Be baptized.
3. Do not commit any mortal sins.
4. If after Baptism you commit a mortal sin seek God's forgiveness through the sacrament[s] of Holy Confession and Penance.
Preeminently Christ is God made incarnate as an historical, bodily man, who is fully God and fully human simultaneously. This is an unfathomable mystery to the human mind. Not least because the god–man Jesus Christ willingly sacrifices Himself bodily, through the agony of crucifixion unto death, to redeem the sins of mankind; so that mankind, formerly subject to original sin forever through the Fall of Adam, may be joined again with their loving and merciful Father Who art in Heaven....
Well, I will wait until some others of the Catholic faith have an opportunity to review post #175 and add if they see a need. The Catechism has a list.
Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful testimony, dearest sister in Christ!
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house. - Acts 16:30-34
Just another subject change to avoid the fact that Jesus Christ made a clear, and simple point that the Self and Self Alone crowd avoid dealing with ?
Exactly the same sort of dodging and tap dancing takes place when the same ravening wolves in sheep's clothing are confronted with the fact that they accept the Pharisee Rabbis of Jamnia as being led by God and insist that the Holy Spirit was not led by God because the Holy Spirit cannot and did not protect the Scripture from the inclusion of error.
John 3:16 out of context is fine because it suits the fabricated heresy of the Self and Self Alone ravening wolves but any other verse is meaningless if it is taken as meaning exactly what it says.
So, fine, have it your way and be cast into the fire, there are two gospels one for Jews, one for Gentiles.
I'm glad all the we could clear that up at long last. The anti-Catholic crew don't believe the Gospel, they believe a Gospel addressed just to the Gentiles. All that stuff in Scripture about neither Jew or Gentile in Christ is just another little mistake the imperfect Holy Spirit allowed to sneak through.
No doubt that part will be removed when the next "reformation" rolls around and a few more books of the Bible get thrown in the garbage can to please Jewish Pharisee Rabbies in Wherever
In Matt. 7 there wasn't any Gospel to the Gentiles...Obviously you can read so the problem seems to be that you just don't believe God...
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Using sarcasm, to argue theology, is an indicator we have slipped from fellowship with God.
We pray to God the Father, through faith in Christ and His Work on the Cross.
Did you even read the comment to which I replied where the commenter flatly stated that there wasn't a Christian in that entire chapter ?
I ask a question about what Christ Himself said with regard to what happens when someone does not produce good fruit and the response was that Christ was only talking to those who weren't yet Christians.
So, in a flat rejection of what Scripture states someone asserts that Christ is in fact a respecter of persons and what Christ states one place is not addressed to all who hear Him.
So, if that's not one Gospel for the Jews and another for the Gentiles, it has to be one Gospel for those who Christ seeks to bring to Him and another for those who already follow Him.
What Christ said now only applies until you believe in Christ at which point each individual chooses which of His words apply to them, is that what Scripture states ?
Any way someone tries to spin the comment to which I replied, that assertion means there is more than one Gospel which is without a doubt not in keeping with what Christ and the Apostles taught and what Scripture states.
Is it sarcasm to ask someone exactly what they believe Christ means by what Christ said in Scripture ?
Is it sarcasm to ask someone why they avoid that question ?
Is it sarcasm to point out that someone made a statement that directly contradicts Scripture ?
Is it sarcasm point out that someone who accepts the words of Pharisee Rabbis as true rather than believing that the Holy Spirit guided the Apostles to all truth as Christ said the Holy Spirit would is blaspheming the Holy Spirit as being imperfect along with stating that what Christ said the Holy Spirit would do did not happen ?
Just what do you see as sarcasm ?
Any statement of fact that doesn't tip toe around those who are either trapped in a diabolical delusion or are ravening wolves trying to disguise themselves as sheep ?
Thanks for the list.
Without being snarky, I would be genuinely curious about why something like the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is found nowhere in Scripture, would be a dogmatic teaching that is required for salvation?
If God thought it necessary for salvation, would He not have had Jesus tell us so? Would not the Holy Spirit have inspired at least ONE of the NT writers to say something, anything about it?
Additionally, the publican was saved by crying out, “ God be merciful to me, a sinner.”
And there were some people to whom Jesus said, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”. and I don’t recall that any of them said or did some church or religious thing.
Because it’s the response of the heart to the call of God.
He meets us where we are, as we are.
We don’t have to clean ourselves up, go somewher special, do something special. Just cry out to Him. He sees our heart and responds to that.
We don't need someone to tell us if we've repented because they don't know our heart. Nobody needs authority to tell us that.
More importantly, Jesus never mentions “Scripture alone” as the sole rule of faith. Rather, He warns us against failing to “listen to the church,” (we will be regarded as non-Christians) because the Apostles and their successors have the power to “bind and loose,” given to them by Jesus. This was a rabbinic term meaning indisputable ecclesiastical authority. Christ’s Church is “the pillar and foundation of truth.”
You have been corrected on that error many times already but still persist in it. It does not seem to have sunk in. That is not an admonition to listen to the church, but rather a comment about settling disputes among believers and the final step in the process.
The pillar and foundation of something are supposed to be the support of it and the Catholic church does not support the truth os Scripture but rather changes it at it sees fit.
The Catholic church's claims regarding the Bible are not legitmate and do not thereby give the RCC the power or right to make the claims of authority over all believers or its claims of being the way of salvation.
Jesus, a PERSON, saves me, not an organization or religious system.
Physcian, heal thyself.
But the man is still married and the wife is still his wife, even if the relationship is “ dead”.
Works make it richer and fuller, but do not make the marriage bond and lack of works do not break the marriage bond in divorce.
The disobedient child is still part of the family and loved by the parents even in the midst of the diobedience. He is not disowned because of it.
In all cases, the relationship is not what it should be and could be in all its fullness, but it is still the relationship.
So, faith is what saves you, puts you into God’s family. Works make the relationship what it should be in its fullness.
An unmarried man could do all the things for a woman that a husband should, but that does not make them married. A child. could obey an adult as a son or daughter should obey their parents, but it does not adopt them into the family.
In all cases, a legal transaction takes place to establish the relationship , marriage, adoption, being saved, and the works simple flesh it out but have no legal ability to either establish the relationship or break it.
Perhaps it would be better to think of Him as He is in heaven now, the risen, glorified Son of God who is sitting at the right hand of the Father, interceding for us.
The Jesus who knocked Paul off his horse, who appeared to John on the Island of Patmos, who has all authroity and power.
Good advice!!
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
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