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Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Scripture says THIS about the Eucharist:
John 6: [48] I am the bread of life.
[49] Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
[50] This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die.
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
[52]The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
[53] So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
[54] he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (The Greek word here for “eats” means to “munch on”, or to “gnaw on.”)
[55] For my flesh is REAL FOOD, and my blood is REAL DRINK.(Notice how Jesus says the Eucharist is REAL FOOD and REAL DRINK, not symbolic food and drink!)
[56] He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
[57] As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.
[58] This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.”
Many of his disciples left him over this, because they knew that he wasn’t speaking metaphorically, but literally. We know from Mark 4:34 that Jesus explained all of His parables to His disciples, but yet here they are leaving him after this speech about the Eucharist. The only conclusion logical people can draw is that THIS IS NO PARABLE!
And we have the words recorded from the successors to the apostles, like Ignatius, a martyr in the Colisseum of Rome who was taught by St. John the Apostle, which prove that Jesus wasn’t talking in “symbolic” terms!
St. Ignatius of Antioch (110 A.D.)
I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the Bread of God, WHICH IS THE FLESH OF JESUS CHRIST, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I DESIRE HIS BLOOD, which is love incorruptible. (Letter to the Romans 7:3)
Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: FOR THERE IS ONE FLESH OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, and one cup IN THE UNION OF HIS BLOOD; one ALTAR, as there is one bishop with the presbytery… (Letter to the Philadelphians 4:1)
They [i.e. the Gnostics] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that THE EUCHARIST IS THE FLESH OF OUR SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST, flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. (Letter to Smyrnians 7:1)
For instance, when the risen Christ, in his glorified, resurrected body, appeared to the Apostles (Luke 24:38-40):
"And He said to them,
"Why are you troubled,
and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
See My hands and My feet,
that it is I Myself;
touch Me and see,
for a spirit does not have flesh and bones
as you see that I have."
And when He had said this,
He showed them His hands and His feet.…"
It is true, simultaneously, that The Body that the risen and glorified Jesus has IS a human body (because it is His, and He is human) AND that it is not a human body "as we understand it."
As far as we can analyze from Scripture, Jesus' glorified body (and all of ours, at the resurrection of our own bodies) has these characteristics:
Identity: The glorified body will possess its original identity in that it will be united to your soul. Your body will really be your body, but that does not mean it will look the same as it did during your life on this earth.
Integrity: The glorified body will be integral (complete), regardless of how it was during its earthly life, or at the moment of its death, or after it has decomposed in the grave. Everyone in Heaven, regardless of the condition of his body while on earth, will have all his body parts, in their perfection: perfect vision, hearing, mobility, etc.
Quality: Everyone in his glorified body will be as if in the prime of life. Although “marrying and giving in marriage” will not be part of our post-resurrection life, nevertheless we shall all be the same gender God conferred on us at the moment of conception. Only in the post-resurrection life shall we adequately understand what it is to be masculine and feminine.
Agility: Our glorified bodies, acting completely under the dominion of our souls, will have the ability to go effortlessly wherever we desire them to go — at the speed of thought.
Subtlety: Our glorified bodies, while physical and tangible, will be completely under the direction of our souls, free from restraint or impediment. Yes, you could walk through locked doors, as Jesus did.
Impassibility: Oiur glorified bodies will never be pain, sickness, suffering, or death. There will be no natural or supernatural disasters. Just never-ending, uninterrupted happiness. We will go “from glory to glory” for eternity with God and all our loved ones.
Clarity or Brilliance: We will shine, both spiritually and physically. The body, in its final state, shall correspond completely to the state of the soul -- magnificently beautiful beyond imagining. For at that time, “God will be all in all.” As Saint Paul says, “Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, nor has the heart of man conceived the good things that God has in store for those who love Him!”
It looks like something straight out of Revelation.
I realize Catholics want to tell me from that passage in John 6 that Catholics drink and eat the truly. really, substantially present body, blood, SOUL and DIVINITY of Jesus The Christ in order that Catholics have God's Life in them. These same Catholics will tell you that this Life can leave a Catholic and must be re-inserted/ re-applied/ re-justified/ re-sanctified by the Sacrament of the Catholic 'continuous sacrifice of the victim, eating His body, blood, SOUL and DIVINTY again in order to be bound for Heaven once again.
What did Paul tell the Corinthians in the above passage? Do you think maybe Paul had a clearer line to The Christ, if nothing else a more recent link to the actual events Jesus instituted int he Upper Room Seder ceremony?
I have fellowshipped with Christians for years before I knew they were ex catholics like me. We always enjoy talking about our former lives as catholics. 😆 I am grateful to the RCC, that they taught me the concept of the trinity, but I don't agree with their plan of salvation, so I left.
Yes it does. Why would anyone choose that junk?
26 As they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks for it, and broke it. He gave to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body." 27 He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, "All of you drink it, 28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I tell you that I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on, until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's Kingdom."
Mark 24
22 As they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had blessed, he broke it, and gave to them, and said, "Take, eat. This is my body." 23 He took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them. They all drank of it. 24 He said to them, "This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many. 25 Most certainly I tell you, I will no more drink of the fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it anew in the Kingdom of God."
Luke 22
14 When the hour had come, he sat down with the twelve apostles. 15 He said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer, 16 for I tell you, I will no longer by any means eat of it until it is fulfilled in the Kingdom of God." 17 He received a cup, and when he had given thanks, he said, "Take this, and share it among yourselves, 18 for I tell you, I will not drink at all again from the fruit of the vine, until the Kingdom of God comes." 19 He took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and gave to them, saying, "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in memory of me." 20 Likewise, he took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
Can you see ANYTHING that those three renderings from Disicples have in common? I'm sure hopin' you can. I suspect too many Catholcs will however not see what they see so that they can go on following the Roman Catholic Church instead of The Lord Jesus Christ.
Thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate your good will and your intent to communicate in a mutually helpful manner.
May God bless you and your dear ones.
The second cup of wine is not mentioned in the gospels. It is the cup of plagues, drunk after the Passover story is told but before the meal.
At the point where bitter herbs are eaten, Jesus revealed that He would be betrayed by Judas: “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with Me will betray Me” [Matthew 26:20-25].
The third cup of wine is the cup of redemption. This is where Jesus announced the new covenant, for the forgiveness of sins [Matthew 26:27-28].
He did not drink the fourth cup of wine – the cup of completion. (He poured it out, Luke 22:20) He said that He will drink that cup with us in heaven [Matthew 26:29] at the marriage supper of the Lamb.
Sorry, meant to include you in the “to” ping @770
Ooooh so close yet so far. Did you either listen to or read the link I gave you to Scott Hahn's Fourth cup?
"As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and
as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also
bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that
flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption" (1Co 15:48-50 AV, my emphasis).
Tell me, what is your problem?
Thank you for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!
https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/euchc3.htm
One of the most important ways that the Old Covenant foreshadows the New is in its use of the image of the sacrificial lamb. Let’s see how this relates to the Eucharist in Scripture.
First, take a look at Revelation 5. In Revelation 5, there is a scroll with seven seals that nobody can break open and everybody is really upset. In fact John almost begins to cry. In 5, verse 2, “A strong angel proclaimed with a loud voice, ‘Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?’ And no one in heaven and on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it.” What is the scroll? The word is biblion. Most likely it’s a reference to a covenant document, the New Covenant document that nobody is worthy to break open. “And I wept much, but no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it,” because this scroll would consummate and fulfill the promises of the Old Testament.
“Then one of the elders said to me, ‘Weep not. Lo, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, he has conquered so that he can open the scroll and seven seals.’” You could almost feel the hallelujah rising up from within your soul. The Lion of the tribe of Judah! You turn. You look and John turns to look and what does he see in verse 6, “ And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw,” what? Aslan, the lion? No. David crowned with glory? No. You’d think so, a lion and a king are the words used to describe it. “I turned and I saw a lamb standing, looking as though it had been slain.”
Jesus Christ is the son of David and the king of the new and heavenly Jerusalem. He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah and He is the Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the world, as it said elsewhere in Revelation. But here in heaven on the throne of glory, after His crucifixion, Hs resurrection, His ascension, His enthronement, He still looks like a lamb. He still looks as though He had been slain. Why not clean up the body? Why not wipe away the wounds? Why continue resembling a lamb? Because He’s continuing the Passover offerings, the sacrifice. Not by dying, not by bleeding and not by suffering but by continuing to offer up Himself as the firstborn and as the unblemished lamb, as the perpetual, timeless, everlasting sacrifice of praise to the Father.
And what do the people do? They rejoice and they break out into a song. And what is the song, “Worthy art thou to take the scroll and to open its seals for thou was slain.” Past tense, “And by thy blood didst ransom men for God from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.” And what has he done? He’s become a priest to be sure, but for what purpose? “He has made them a kingdom and priest to our God.” He has made those whom he has saved priests. And what do priests do? They offer sacrifice.
Has Christ’s sacrifice ended all sacrifices? No. Christ’s sacrifice has ended all ineffective, bloody animal sacrifices that never did anything anyway. Now for the first time in history we can really begin to offer sacrifice to God. Romans 12 says, “Offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God.” And it wouldn’t be holy and acceptable except that it’s united to Christ’s perpetual sacrifice. He’s not bleeding. He’s not dying. He’s not suffering, but he is offering a sacrifice as a lamb does, as a priest king does continually, forever.
And that’s what it’s all about. John wouldn’t see a lamb looking as though it had been slain if the whole kit and caboodle was completed and done. Yes, it’s completed and done, but it’s still going on, and it’s going to go on forever in the future. Why? Because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever, as Hebrews tells us.
Now, is this strange? Is this teaching novel? Well, let’s take a look at 1st Corinthians and see how natural it seems to the apostle Paul. We have already looked at 1st Corinthians 5, “Christ, our Passover,” that’s in verse 7, “Christ, our Paschal Lamb has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.” What’s he talking about? Is he talking about leaven being like sin. No. He’s saying let us celebrate the feast with unleavened bread. What feast? The Eucharist! The sacrifice continues because communion must be celebrated. We’ve got to eat the lamb, the resurrected, glorified, enthroned lamb that still looks as though he’d been slain because he’s still giving himself to us.
Turn over with me now to Corinthians, chapter 9, verse 13. He says, “Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings in the same way the Lord commanded. That those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.” Now we might be tempted to read Corinthians 9, 13 and 14 and say, “Well, back in the Old Testament they did temple service and altar service and sacrifice, but now in the New Testament they only proclaim the word.”
The problem with that is that Paul goes on to say, Corinthians 11, as we will see, how Christ’s death is proclaimed. Take a look with me at 1st Corinthians, 11:23-26. “For I received from the Lord what I shall deliver to you.” Interesting, he received it not from Peter and the apostles. When Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus or perhaps at some other time, what did Jesus deliver to Paul? Instructions for the Eucharist. “I received from the Lord what I also deliver to you. That the Lord Jesus Christ, on the night when He was betrayed, took bread, and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, ‘This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ In the same way also the cup after supper saying, ‘This cup is the New Covenant in my blood. Do this.” Commandment, imperative tense. “As often as you drink it in remembrance of me. For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.”
You proclaim the gospel. Let’s go back then to Corinthians 9, verse 14, “In the same way the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.” How does Paul proclaim the gospel? Just by preaching? Or by celebrating the Eucharist? “As often as you do this, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.” That’s the gospel. Paul is talking in verses 13 and 14 about how he should be supported as an apostle and he does so in conjunction with temple service at an altar where there is sacrificial offerings which he as an apostle has the right to receive from. What’s he talking about? A New Covenant temple? A New Covenant altar? A New Covenant sacrifice where he proclaims the gospel by celebrating the Eucharist.
Now let’s go on to Corinthians 10 and get things straight really quickly here because Corinthians 10, gives us a proper warning. In the first ten verses of Corinthians 10, Paul says that back in the Old Testament with Moses, verse 3, “They all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink.” The water from the rock and the manna in the wilderness and both, Paul says in a sense, were signs of Christ’s presence among them. Nevertheless, verse 5, “with most of them God was not pleased for they were overthrown in the wilderness.”
In the next three verses he describes the Golden Calf incident where thousands of them died. In other words just because you receive supernatural food and drink doesn’t mean you’ve got it made in the shade. You have to set things right with God and keep things right with the Lord. Verse 11, “Now these things happened to them as a warning, but they were written down for our instruction upon whom the end of the ages has come.” We now have a greater and much more supernatural food and drink. So we can relax? No. We’ve got to be even more circumspect in searching out our hearts and making sure we are right with God.
He goes on in verse 16, “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a coenia, a communion, a participation in the blood of Christ?” Not a symbol. But a share, a communion. The bread which we break , is it not a coenia, a communion in the body of Christ. “Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body for we all partake of the one bread.” He doesn’t mean to say that there’s one enormous loaf that we all take a piece from. There are many loaves of bread. There are many breads in that earthly sense, but there’s only one bread in the heavenly sense, and that’s Christ. Because we receive from one bread Christ, the Bread of Life, we who are many become one body, namely, the Body of Christ. He’s suggesting that we become what we eat.
He goes on to contrast our sacrifice with other sacrifices and he says, verse 18, “Consider the people of Israel. Are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar?” What he is saying is back then when you eat the sacrifice, you have a communion in the altar of those animals. Now we have a communion on all of our altars in the New Covenant with Christ, the Lamb of God. Verse 21, “You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Shall we provoke the Lord with jealousy? Are we stronger than he?” For some reason God takes this with the utmost seriousness. Why?
Corinthians 11, he spells it out even clearer. We’ve already read verses 23 through 26. Now we can conclude with verse 27 where he says, “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the Body and the Blood of the Lord.” Now that language is actually like civil judicial language. Somebody who’s practically guilty of murder or capital offense is guilty of the body and blood. Now if it’s only a symbol, he might be guilty in some lesser sense, but when you profane the Lord’s Supper, you actually become guilty of profaning the Body and Blood of the Lord. “Let a man examine himself, therefore, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning,” — the symbolism? No. “...the body, eats and drinks judgment upon himself.”
Now is he just speaking metaphorically? He couldn’t be because in the next verse he says, “That is why many of you are weak and ill and some have died.” To receive the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin is playing with fire of the worst sort. He goes on in chapter 12, verse 12, “For just as the body is one,” the Church, that is, “...and has many members and all the members of the body though many are one body, so it is with Christ for by one Spirit we were all baptized in the one body.” When we received the water of Baptism, we received the Spirit of God. “And all were made to drink of the one Spirit.” When we receive Eucharist, Communion, we receive the Spirit as well as the flesh and the blood and the body, soul, humanity and divinity of Christ.
This is significant, very significant. This, in fact, gives us the whole interpretive key to the Book of Revelation. Many non-Catholic as well as Catholic scholars have noticed that the whole structure of Revelation is a big Passover liturgy where Christ, the Priest King, the firstborn Son and the Lamb looking as though it’s been slain conducts and celebrates the heavenly liturgy. And the earthly liturgy is meant to be a reflection in that, a participation in that, and the early Church took it for granted. There is the Lamb looking as though it’s been slain and making all of the people in heaven priests so they can assist in the offering of the firstborn son of God to the Father and join themselves with it.
No, you are dead wrong, because you are merely giving me quotes from the Catholic Catechism, and ignoring plain Bible truth. I know exactly what the Catholic teaching is, and I gave you a Scripture passage that not only denies your position and that of the catechism, but absolutely contradicts it beyond the shadow of a doubt.
I cannot help you, and neither can God, when you deny His Word and listen to satanic devices, as did Eve.
I am not going to go over this issue again with you, because you are not merely ignorant, you have allowed yourself to be deluded as to Who God is, and how He works. If you have a change of mind, come back and we'll look at God's Word with an open mind, like the Bereans.
For me, He not only die on the Cross so that my penalty is paid IN FULL, Once For All Forever, He rose again in three days to assure that His life is in all who are born from above. How many times will you need to be born from above following the heretical lies of the essay portion you posted?
Do you people even read the stuff you drag and paste on FR?
So, lets look at O'Brien's book approved by the Vatican. How much power does the Catholic Priest have over Jesus, according to the assertions of O'Brien ... and surely you've read his tome for catholic apologetics, Faith of Millions?
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