Is There A Purgatory?

The Bible never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin. Rather, it always speaks of a Person to whom we can go to be purified: Jesus Christ. God tells us that those who refuse to trust Christ to cleanse them from their sins are condemned: Whoever believes in Him avoids condemnation, but whoever does not believe is already condemned for not believing in the name of God's only Son (John 3:18). There are only two choices: Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God (John 3:36; See also Revelation 20:15; Luke 16:19-31, especially verse 26). Anyone who accepts Christ is completely saved: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Saying that there is no condemnation, certainly eliminates the flames of purgatory.

Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).

Anyone who does not believe that Christ has completely saved him, has not completely trusted Christ to save him. That is, he does not believe that Christ's sacrifice has paid for all of his sins, and thinks he must pay for some of them himself. However, we are saved when we stop trusting what we can do, and start trusting Christ to save us.

The idea that Christ's sacrifice is not sufficient to cleanse us from all of our sins would condemn a great sinner such as the thief who was crucified with Jesus to suffer a long time in purgatory if not for all eternity in hell! Instead, there was nothing left over that Christ's death on the Cross did not cover. When the thief placed his trust in Christ, Jesus said to him, I assure you: this day you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).

If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them. One ex-priest wrote, "If we really believed that the mass would save people from the flames of purgatory, would we make them pay for it? I would even save a dog if I saw one in a fire, and I would never even think of asking to be paid!"

Purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.

In any event, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. Some would try, however, to make the idea sound somewhat Biblical by referring to 2 Maccabees 12:41-45, a passage in one of the apocryphal books written between the times of the Old and New Testaments. These books were never accepted as part of the Hebrew Old Testament, nor quoted in the New Testament, but they are included in the Catholic Bible, though usually with an explanation that they are of a less inspired category. Apart from this passage in 2 Maccabees, the apocrypha is little used by the Catholic church to support a doctrinal position.

It is important to notice that this passage does not speak of purgatory at all, but actually condemns idolatry, particularly the practice of wearing little images on a necklace or such. Hebrew soldiers were found wearing this sort of thing after a battle, and their buddies, on making this discovery, realized that they had died in the sin of idolatry. They then counseled prayer for their souls. The Roman Catholic position is that prayer for them would have been unnecessary if they were in heaven and useless if they were in hell, so there must be another place. The logic seems good, but the result contradicts the clear teaching of the inspired Scripture. Contradicting inspired Scripture with a philosophical response based on an apparent inference from the Apocrypha is a very weak argument indeed. The very word "Apocrypha," which comes from the Greek word for hidden, has come to mean "false," or "of doubtful authorship."

Agreed, He doesn't say words to explicitly say "the second commandment", but he has already beat it into the ground in all written before, as I understand it.

I guess it depends upon what His meaning of "graven image" is. It is alluded to and called out, at least to limited my understanding:

"I am thirsty for adoration, but behold, what have you become and what have you done! O era! you have stopped adoring Me and you have, instead, multiplied your false gods;"
"you preferred to cut off the navel-string that unites us and makes us one, to make out your own law and call yourself: godless;
taken by Vanity you want to consider yourself equal to Me; you are now saying: "I am equal to God and I am sitting on His Throne,"
"you are serving the dragon instead of your Holy One;"
"My child; they go out to teach all nations to worship the image of mortal man,4 a worthless imitation, instead of My Eternal Glory ..."

Close enough for me to get the idea, but that's me.

If that's your "Stop/Go" test and you say "Stop!", then that's what it is for you.

Acts 2:17 and Joel 2:28, I think, are two references that would support the idea of the messages if the time is right, as well as what T&R has reported back, and at this time these times sure do have an impending feel to them.

Also, I think most of us are like Elisha's servant, who must have been from Missouri, and not like Elisha.

We are the Doubting Thomases who say "Show me" but, unlike Elisha's servant, usually won't believe even then. Curious.

With that thought in mind, here's a fun read you might enjoy, too:

The Prophet Elisha, Chariots of Fire, and Angels all Around Us

“Do you believe the vision of Fatima was from God. or Mary?”

No question it was from God. Oh by the way.... angels are also spirits... Under your guidelines, you better not communicate with them.

Incidently, St Teresa of Avila also talked to spirits. As did every one of the disciples.

I stand by everything I said. And if you in disbelief choose to suffer rather than accept any healing done through me by the Holy Spirit, that is fine with me as my identity does not come from whether someone is healed or not. I am totally a servant of God and whatever happens or does not happen is ok with me. It used to be upsetting to know that someone was going to die soon, especially when it was by aggression or accident rather than illness. Now I just give it to God. My prayers are not for specific results, but for God’s will to be done. Things that happen are only to give glory to God. I will never cease to be amazed things God does through the Holy spirit.

I do a lot of work with stage 4 cancer patients, guiding them to their own connection with God in prayer. Often, that connection allows them to keep a clear mind right up to death as they do not feel the pain of the cancer even without painkillers. (Surprisingly, that has been true with inoperable brain tumors as well.) I work with many Dr’s helping them with patients when medical science has no solution. I look at an X-ray or MRI and read it not with my eyes, but by what I feel in my body. We are all connected by Spirit, even if the other person is on the opposite side of the world.

Spirit working through me has helped children with learning disabilities resolve their obstacles to learning. It has helped adopted children overcome the wound in their soul from the fear of being rejected again. It has helped women who were in one violent physically abusive relationship after another to heal their souls and rid them of the attraction toward abusers. It has helped rape victims to forgive their attackers and lose the fear of it happening again so they could have a healthy relationship and live a life without constantly looking over their shoulder in fear. It has helped parents who have lost their children in accidents and illness to heal the grief and function in life again. It has helped a lot of people who were fearful of loving to open their hearts to both their spouses and their children. It has healed marriages. And, it has helped children who became violent as a result of blaming themselves for their parent’s divorce. I generally only see a person one time, and tell them to come back only if they need to. All thanks and gratitude go to God, not me. I do not charge for the work that I do as it is a pleasure participating in god’s work. Each time something like this happens it fills my heart with joy and brings me to tears.

I’ve seen many miracles happen and even more people find Jesus and God in the process. Nothing gives me greater joy than seeing someone grow in Christ. That alone is my reward.

If you bring me the MD’s, scientists, skeptics, agnostics, and even the atheists, Spirit working through me will lead them to accepting Jesus. I’ve done this many times in both church and university settings. The more highly educated the easier it is. I explain and demonstrate the neuroscience of how the physical body and the human soul communicate. I’ve taught workshops on the “Neuroscience of Prayer” in major divinity schools. When you perceive the human soul as a physical object and can see and feel its contents, all this is easy. Often I will reach out and touch a wound in someone’s soul from fifteen feet away and it will knock them off their feet, even though I say nothing, do not touch them in any way, and their eyes are closed. It’s easy to tell what a mother thought of the child’s father while the child was in their womb, just by reading the soul of the child even though it is 50+ years later. All memories are stored in the human soul from conception on, no matter how old you are.

If you recognize a tree by the fruit it bears, the Spirit working through me must be a good one. If you choose your path, that is fine with me. If you harm others by misleading them with your beliefs and create fear in them, I pray for you as I am sure that you would never knowingly do such a thing.

You may say these things are being done by satan, but I beg to differ as satan would not work against satan. I have had him come after me several times and want to kill me. In the words of a nasty demon working for him that was trying to kill me, “They hate me for the work I do.” “I ruin their plans.” Just as Paul had a personal demon that constantly watched for an opening to torment him, I bear the same problem. I thank that demon for reminding me to pray and stay focused on Jesus. Each time they approach me, I feel gratitude toward them for reminding me to pray. It is good to Love thy enemies. Besides,to them Love is like placing hot coals upon their heads and keeps them away from me.

If you do not believe a word I have written, that is ok. I send a prayer with this writing that Jesus guide you in His Love to be with you always.

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“Many who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.”