Posted on 08/09/2015 11:06:27 AM PDT by Old Yeller
The Bible never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin. Rather, it always speaks of a Person to whom we can go to be purified: Jesus Christ. God tells us that those who refuse to trust Christ to cleanse them from their sins are condemned: Whoever believes in Him avoids condemnation, but whoever does not believe is already condemned for not believing in the name of God's only Son (John 3:18). There are only two choices: Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God (John 3:36; See also Revelation 20:15; Luke 16:19-31, especially verse 26). Anyone who accepts Christ is completely saved: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Saying that there is no condemnation, certainly eliminates the flames of purgatory.
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
Anyone who does not believe that Christ has completely saved him, has not completely trusted Christ to save him. That is, he does not believe that Christ's sacrifice has paid for all of his sins, and thinks he must pay for some of them himself. However, we are saved when we stop trusting what we can do, and start trusting Christ to save us.
The idea that Christ's sacrifice is not sufficient to cleanse us from all of our sins would condemn a great sinner such as the thief who was crucified with Jesus to suffer a long time in purgatory if not for all eternity in hell! Instead, there was nothing left over that Christ's death on the Cross did not cover. When the thief placed his trust in Christ, Jesus said to him, I assure you: this day you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).
If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them. One ex-priest wrote, "If we really believed that the mass would save people from the flames of purgatory, would we make them pay for it? I would even save a dog if I saw one in a fire, and I would never even think of asking to be paid!"
Purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.
In any event, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. Some would try, however, to make the idea sound somewhat Biblical by referring to 2 Maccabees 12:41-45, a passage in one of the apocryphal books written between the times of the Old and New Testaments. These books were never accepted as part of the Hebrew Old Testament, nor quoted in the New Testament, but they are included in the Catholic Bible, though usually with an explanation that they are of a less inspired category. Apart from this passage in 2 Maccabees, the apocrypha is little used by the Catholic church to support a doctrinal position.
It is important to notice that this passage does not speak of purgatory at all, but actually condemns idolatry, particularly the practice of wearing little images on a necklace or such. Hebrew soldiers were found wearing this sort of thing after a battle, and their buddies, on making this discovery, realized that they had died in the sin of idolatry. They then counseled prayer for their souls. The Roman Catholic position is that prayer for them would have been unnecessary if they were in heaven and useless if they were in hell, so there must be another place. The logic seems good, but the result contradicts the clear teaching of the inspired Scripture. Contradicting inspired Scripture with a philosophical response based on an apparent inference from the Apocrypha is a very weak argument indeed. The very word "Apocrypha," which comes from the Greek word for hidden, has come to mean "false," or "of doubtful authorship."
Jesus. The Son. As in: The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. He's The One in the middle. That guy.
Sorry for your confusion. It's my fault. I thought I had been clear. Guess not.
That is a good question [Do you believe it is Jesus speaking on May 28, 1987?]. Not sure I'm qualified to answer it as you might be.
Any true born again serious Christian would know that the answer is no.
The only "qualification" to answer the question is to know Jesus is in you and you are in Jesus. Being born again and know that you belong to Jesus.
Your opinions are boldly spoken and come across as from someone who knows. That's not me.
Most all of my comments are not opinions, but are Biblical statements
It's not me that knows, but God.
Having spent years studying the Bible and listing to countless hours of preaching and years in ministry, I depend on the Holy Spirit to be the discerner of spiritual truths.
Now, to answer your question...I wasn't sure at first, still not 100% sure 100% of the time.
it sure sounds like Him, to me, and still does re-reading that message a few more times.
Yes, the channeler is quite good at what she does.
There is some truth in what he says (quoted in your post #817), but then goes off into supporting other apparitions that are not from God.
You are familiar with Lucia, Mary and Christ Child communicating at Fatima? They are spirits that are not from God. God would never appear in a vision to anyone as "Christ Child"
She makes it very scary for anyone reading the text to not accept that the whole Fatima thing is coming from God.
One quote from what you posted from "True Life in God" is something that God would never say, especially with the wrong grammar: "...believe, believe in Me, I, who am Infinite Wealth..."
Notice how close he gets to saying God's name which is "I Am" but can't.
What I've read so far sure Feels right, you know?
Yes, she knows how to envoke feelings from readers so they will continue to follow her.
It doesn't look like you have properly "tested the sprits" Biblically to be safe.
This is not the Jesus of the Bible that this woman seems to claim to be quoting.
I would suggest you spend more time reading the Bible, especially the Gospel of John.
Pray that the Holy Spirit will reveal Jesus to you in all his majesty and glory.
I agree with your assessment of Vassula.
Yet she is a relative unknown (at least in this country) compared to Sarah Young and her JESUS CALLING.
I hate anything claiming to mouth Jesus’ beyond Scripture. I just hate it. What is your take on JESUS CALLING? Several lady relatives read it daily and I just ignore it. People gobble up substitutes for Scripture like nobody’s business.
Oh really! Does the priest bring Mary down to the Mass wafer when he supposedly brings Jesus down from Heaven to be in the mass wafer? Or is Jesus split into multiple personages to accommodate all the masses taking place and Mary too split into multiple personages for the same consumption?
They are all being used by the enemy for one reason...to distract as many people as possible from looking to Jesus for their fulfillment.
Same reason for Fatima and other apparitions plus the emphasis on Mary in Catholicism lately.
I studied all kinds of stuff like that years ago, Maitreya was supposed to be big thing...where is that demon now?
People gobble up substitutes for Scripture like nobody’s business.
From the father of lies.
American King James Versionsatan told Jesus he has been walking to and fro upon the earth...and these appirations are his demons, the fallen angels that were cast down to earth with their father satan.
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour:--1 Peter, 5:8
Dude, Mary was on the cross with Jesus.
Her heart is full of thorns.
All been said in the past.
To respond in kind and respond to: The only "qualification" to answer the question is to know Jesus is in you and you are in Jesus.
This is exactly why I think, feel and believe the messages are exactly what they say they are, in all aspects. Before, I didn't. Now, I do.
And, that is why I answered you as I have, to give witness testimony to that personal experience, doubt and all. Like I said, it's all I got.
I am familiar with Fatima, though I wasn't before reading the messages, only in passing. Maybe had heard about it on Art Bell years ago, but that's about it.
I'm not a Catholic. I long dated a pseudo-fallen Catholic from a rock solid Irish Catholic family right off the boat from the old country and ran into Tradition early in that relationship, but she wasn't traditional. I wasn't exposed to much about Catholicism other than by osmosis at Easter.
But I appreciate their examples now even more than I did back then. I've hiked a bit of the Christian Seeker's Trail now and I know that it eventually leads back to the Catholic Church.
I grew up around a lot of anti-Catholic animosity for some of my Southern youth and still have some inner obstacles to overcome as I hike the trail back to The Source.
One thing? I think you should do a refresher course on Fatima. (Me, too, for that matter.)
I think you're getting a few things wrong and those errors might be messing with your perceptions.
Something else? I don't understand what He means, but in the messages, He says that Garabandal is the sequel to Fatima.
Given some of what was said at Fatima, as well as what wasn't revealed by the Church hierarchy, that seems a bit ominous to me, but "ominous" fits well with what's currently playing on our calendar. Anyway, it might be something to look into and learn about if you're at all curious.
Notice how close he gets to saying God's name which is "I Am" but can't.
He doesn't name Himself by "I Am" in that message, but He does in many, many other messages.
To be fair, True Life In God, whatever it is, is a book that should be read from the beginning for a better understanding, but it's also one that you can randomly open anywhere and read something of value.
Syncro, I thank you with all my heart for helping me understand something I've had trouble with.
You are exactly the right person for me to show that particular message to. Heaven sent, I'd say, same as the messages in TLIG. Bless you for your help!
It's taken me far too long to get a feel for it, but I love how He works!
“I’ve hiked a bit of the Christian Seeker’s Trail now and I know that it eventually leads back to the Catholic Church....I grew up around a lot of anti-Catholic animosity for some of my Southern youth and still have some inner obstacles to overcome as I hike the trail back to The Source.”
Oh dear, this is a revoltin’ developm’t. Well, it all fits: departure from the Word leads to doctrines of demons and paying attention to lying spirits.
“Folly is an unruly woman;
she is simple and knows nothing.
She sits at the door of her house,
on a seat at the highest point of the city,
calling out to those who pass by,
who go straight on their way,
“Let all who are simple come to my house!”
To those who have no sense she says,
“STOLEN WATER IS SWEET;
FOOD EATEN IN SECRET IS DELICIOUS!”
But little do they know that the dead are there,
that her guests are deep in the realm of the dead.”—Proverbs 9
Stolen water is sweet. “Did God really say...?” Food eaten is secret is delicious. “Surely you will not die!”
Well, since you’ve determined to set out on the trail, pardner, it’s only fair to warn you of savage wolves, clouds without rain and the synagogue of Satan!
Constantine LEGALIZED the Catholic church which had existed for many years.
no
Paganism has existed for 4500 years, and it didn’t need to be legalized; it was the law.
Constantine just recognized the tremendous profit to be made by pretending that it had anything to do with Yeshua.
I told my self to stop talking so much, but it's not listening and you've been patient. As a card I once received said: "I don't usually dump on people, but in your case I'll make an excretion", so here's my smell on things.
I've been watching religious people fight all my life and once, I could step away for some perspective and slightly out of hearing range, I realized I couldn't tell them apart.
Typical family arguments that never get resolved...been there, still do that.
The thing with the Protest camp I get. I grew up just on the other side of the tracks from them and I like them a lot. I don't always understand them, but these are my people.
And I also know how family and relationship issues can sometimes become unresolvable and how sometimes one has to leave or is made to leave.
Been both myself, same as everyone else I'm sure, and when it's time to go, you can't take it all with you, so you only take the most important, "can't live without it" stuff and leave the rest behind.
I don't know all the arguments from back in the day, but I've lived and read about enough situations where a friend or parent or a public servant became like a tyrant, so to speak, and selfishly kept things to themselves, handed out only what was barely enough and locked things down to where it was unbearable to be there another second.
And, I've been booted out of a family that adopted me because I was too much of a rebel without a clue and wouldn't honor nor follow the rules, rituals, traditions and guidelines, most of which were for my own good and protection.
("Son, you don't have bad luck. The reason bad things happen to you is because you're a dumbass.")
So, while I may not know the details, I've lived enough to understand a family split like the Catholic/Protestant breakup, and I also know how some things get left behind.
In this case, the Protestants took what was necessary(!) with them, but even if they later realized some important things might be missing, they're too proud to go back for them, so they do without.
To me, whatever was left behind seems to be important, because look how scattered the beliefs are compared to the other two! Curious.
It's like a buddy of mine used to say about religion: "every one has a piece of the truth" and, as near as I can tell, they sure likes to argue about it.
I hate to argue, but I like hiking and exploring, so I figure it's time to hike the trail to find out what was left behind and to see if I can find anything that might have been accidentally dropped along the way.
The stuff I've found so far makes me want to keep looking and the hunt is much more satisfying for me than arguing.
Heck, I've even found some stuff that says don't argue about the piece of the truth you think you have!
Anyway...thanks for the well wishes and warnings, and for listening!
(And sorry about the excretion)
Oh, now I understand. 1,600 years after the fact, the protestant movement came along to set us all straight.....thanks. sheesh
Terycarl, emotions aside, Editor-surveyor is historically correct. Facts are facts, whether we like them or not.
Best regards.
ES equated Catholicism with paganism....pagans have been around for a very long time but they have nothing to do with Christianity, the first group of which were Catholics...all other "denominations" came along some 1,600 years after Catholicism had been established as Christianity itself. In the year 1297 for example..ALL Christians were Catholic.
“In the year 1297 for example..ALL Christians were Catholic.”
Thanks for your reply, Terycarl.
Curious. What happened in 1297? Before and after 1297, what happened to Christians who weren’t Catholic?
I chose 1297 as an arbitrary date just to make a point....at that time in history, all Christians were Catholic. It wasn't until the protestant revolution that the various "denominations" were formed.
Thanks for your courteous reply, Terycarl.
Do you think the Catholic Church’s response to those who protested was Christ-like?
.
You may be seeking understanding where none exists.
.
364 years after the fact, Constantine created the catholic church; prior to that date all understood that “catholic” (universal) referred to Yeshua’s assembly, not to any church.
No church can possibly be universal; Yeshua protected his assembly better than that.
.
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