Isn't that special ?
Posted on 08/17/2015 6:07:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
It is that time of week again, where we talk about the Mary, the Mother of God. This is definitely the single most important title that Mary has. If someone gets this wrong, then they get the Divinity of our Lord wrong, and that means the whole plan of Salvation is just messed up. So let us look at this most important title.
Theotokos, God-bearer in Greek, is what the council of Ephesus declared in 431. It specifically says this “If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the Word of God become flesh by birth), let him be anathema.” Now just that statement alone proves the early Church believed that there was Authority given to the bishops to decide sound doctrine, Mary was a Holy Virgin her entire life, and that She bore God. However, we only have time for one today.
Now many times we will hear non-Catholics tell us that this title is nowhere found in Scripture, explicitly at least. However, they cannot themselves find a Scripture verse that says that all doctrine and dogma must be explicitly proven in Scripture. I bet they can never find that. This is a trap they set up for themselves and it is a very unfair double standard that they expect us to meet, but they do not have to. However, on top of this double standard is if we used that same standard, then the doctrine of the Trinity is thrown out, since it’s not an explicit teaching, but instead is implicit in Scripture. This double standard seems to cause more problems that it’s worth wouldn’t you say?
Here is the cold hard truth of it though, all Christians rely on some Church Tradition, as well as Scripture, to validate their doctrines, whether they admit it or not. With that being said, Scripture and Tradition can never contradict one another. The Traditions of men can contradict the Word of God, but the Traditions God left us, through Christ, in the Holy Spirit, are binding upon us, as we are to hold fast to Traditions. So then, what is the real question? The real question is, Does Scripture contradict the teaching that Mary is the Mother of God, and is that doctrine found in Scripture at least implicitly?
Let us begin with Luke 1:43, where Mary visited Elizabeth. There Elizabeth exclaimed “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Because Mary was the Mother of the Lord, who is the Second part of the Holy Trinity, Mary is truly and rightfully called the Mother of God.
We also see in Isaiah 7:14 “Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which is interpreted God with us.” Jesus is God. He was God when He was in the womb, conceived, lived, died, buried, resurrected, in the Eucharist, and in Heaven. The Messiah, who is God, was to be born of a virgin, according to Scripture. God was born of a virgin, and it’s right there in Isaiah, who prophesied of Christ birth. That means both Old and New Testament support the Catholic Doctrine of the Mother of God.
However, this may not be enough for some non-Catholics. Some say that Elisabeth called Christ Lord, and not God, saying that Mary was only to give birth to the human child, the Lord Jesus Christ. So then the question becomes, does lord here mean divinity or just authority? Let’s look at the context.
First let us look at 1 Cor. 8:5, which states “Indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” St. Paul makes it clear that Jesus is the one True, Lord, as opposed to all the false ones, that the pagans who converted in Corinth were probably worshiping. So then, they would understand that Jesus is God. This holds true to the Jews who converted too, who would know Deut. 6:4 “Hear, therefore, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.”
So then that brings us back to Luke 1:43. Elizabeth calls Mary the mother of her Lord. The Mother…Mothers give birth to persons, not natures, let us remember that. Mary did not just give birth to the human nature of Christ, she gave birth to the person of Christ. Christ personhood is Divine, it is God the Son.
Then let us look at 2 Sam. 6:9 where the King, who was David says “How can the ark of the Lord come to me (being the ark of the covenant)” Then in 2 Samuel 616 we see King David leaping in the presence of the Ark, just as John the Baptist did. Then we yet again see another parallel, which says that the ark of the Lord abode in the house of Obededom the Gethite for three months (2 Sam. 6:11), and according to Luke 1:56 Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth about three months. Then, we see that the ark of the covenant carried three items, manna, the Ten Commandments, and Aaron’s rod. These are all types of things Christ are, the Bread of Life, Word made Flesh, and our true High Priest.
Even knowing all this though, there are still those who would deny that Mary is the Mother of God. So then we have to ask, who is Jesus Christ to them? If Mary is not the Mother of God, then who did she give birth to? Many would say it was an earthly human lord, not God. So then, what does that make Christ? If Mary did not give birth to God, then who did she give birth to? Was not Christ God when He was conceived?
If someone says Mary only gave birth to the person of Christ one of two errors, or both could happen, and that is the Denial of the divinity of Christ, and that one would have to say Christ is two distinct persons, and that he is not One. Both were considered heresy in the Early Church. Christ is one Person, with two natures, Divine and Human, which go together and are not separate of one another. If one denies that, the ultimately they are speaking about a different Christ, and St. Paul warns us about that problem, and to not to give heed to them (2 Cor. 11:4).
So then, some say that Mary is the mother of the Trinity if we take it that far, however, this is not true. Mary gave birth to the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2nd Person, who is still God just not the Trinity. However, we must never forget that each Person in the Trinity shares the same Divine Nature and is fully God.
One thing some still point out is that Christ is eternal, so for Mary to be the Mother of God she would have to be God. However the Church does not say Mary is the source of the Divine Nature of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. To better understand this let’s look at humanity. Parents give birth to a person, however they are not the author of life, and certainly did not give the child it’s soul. Thus is true with Mary, she did not give Christ His Divine Nature, though she was the Mother of more than just the human form of Christ, because she gave birth to a person, who was God.
That it is necessary to point out as you have in your post that Jesus is a divine person with two natures inextricably combined in a single person, and that no one is suggesting that Jesus received his divine nature from Mary because she could never give him something she never possessed is evidence enough to me that the appellation, "Mother of God" is too ambiguous and misleading.
If you were to say that Mary is the mother of God incarnate, or "God-bearer" as one post earlier suggested I wouldn't disagree with it.
Scripture itself just refers to her as, "Jesus' mother".
"Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. - Mark 3:31Now Jesus' mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd. -Luke 8:19
They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers. - Acts 1:14
Cordially,
What must be understood is that “mother of God” is not a descriptor intended to expand our understanding of who Mary is. It is entirely about who Jesus is. If you know anything about Church history, you know that the early centuries were a time of christological crisis: the Church was hashing out just who Jesus is. THAT was what was critical to salvation, and that is why they cared. Mariology has no reason for existence except as an adjunct to christology. Everything about Mary refers us back to her son. “Mother of God” describes who Jesus is. First-millennium Christians understood this just fine, as a pithy, periphrastic descriptor of Jesus. They were not allergic to thinking this way.
Isn't that special ?
“Answer the question I asked. If we are to emulate Christ and Christ loved and honored his mother, who was Mary, what part of that can’t you grasp? Was he lying? You don’t believe him?”
Now take a deep breath, NK. Don’t make demands. This is a conversation, not The Inquisition.
We are not to emulate Christ by pretending Mary is our mother. We all have our actual mothers to honor. We are never commanded to honor Mary as our mother. I suggest you search the Scriptures and see what God inspired.
Best
“We are never commanded to honor Mary as our mother”.
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. ~ Galatians 2:20
If Christ “lives in me”, I am to HONOR HIS MOTHER as He HONORED HIS MOTHER.
Amazes me how some pick and choose what they want to believe about Christ. Also amazes me that some hold His mother in contempt. If I reach heaven I don’t want Christ to have to ask me why I didn’t honor His mother like He honored her.
If Mary was good enough for God, she’s good enough for me. I didn’t know God made mistakes.
"3 And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, "They have no wine." 4 Jesus said to her, "Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come." (John 2:3-4)
"47 Then one said to Him, "Look, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, seeking to speak with You." 48 But He answered and said to the one who told Him, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" 49 And He stretched out His hand toward His disciples and said, "Here are My mother and My brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."(Matt.12:47-50)
Mary was chosen by God to bring Jesus into the world, and in that she was blessed among women. But Mary was still human, still needed a savior, and is but one of the body of Christ, as are all Christians. It is not contempt of Mary to recognize this fact, but simple acceptance of what the Bible clearly states.
He doesn't. He doesn't have to. You make enough with your unfounded conclusions to supply a universe.
You're not going to be worshipping or praying to Mary with that attitude. Good for you.
“If Christ “lives in me”, I am to HONOR HIS MOTHER as He HONORED HIS MOTHER”
Nah. Christ living in me doesn’t mean that Mary is now my mother. You’re without Biblical support and trying to invent some now.
Catholics have to resort to this line of thinking as it continues their elevation of Mary to something not accorded to her in the Bible.,
According to catholics she's the "queen of Heaven".
No where, repeat, no where do we see this in the Word.
But when they get the Fifth Marian dogma she'll be elevated even more!
The false roman catholic teaching on Mary is shameful.
if YOU WILL READ VERY CAREFULLY, YOU WILL SEE THAT I HAVE NOT DENIED THESE cHRISTIANS. SO WHO IS THE dolt trying to put words into my mouth? ... You nailed yourself.
The term “God” in the title “Mother of God” has ALWAYS meant “the Second Person of the Trinity.”
ALL of the “ambiguity” you write about is totally imaginary. It stems from ignorance, and from having been subjected to propaganda.
Christians have always called Jesus “God.” They never meant that Jesus is the Trinity. Christians have always called Jesus “the Son of God,” by which they never meant that he is the Son of the Trinity. They meant that he is the Son of the Father.
Mary is the mother of God because she is the mother of Jesus, who is God.
To object to calling Mary “Mother of God” on the grounds that she is not the mother of the Trinity is as relevant as objecting: “Mary cannot be the ‘Mother of God’ because fire engines are red.”
Of course, they don’t care. They just KNOW that Catholics believe Mary is a goddess who gave birth to the Trinity and that Mary did not need a Savior, and that Catholics worship Mary, etc. They have read their anti-Catholic screeds, and they know everything there is to know.
They especially do not need to know the meanings of terms like “person” or “nature” or anything else from “human philosophy.”
They also do not need to know anything in the Old Testament, or how the early Christians, being Jewish, understood anything in the Old Testament. They do not need to know anything about “types” and “anti-types.”
You were doing so well, until the end, where you asserted:
At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.
So you catholics are planning on standing at the Great White Throne of Judgment? ... Sad that you have no better hope than that. But you have chosen ...
And you don't think you haven't been subjected to propaganda from the RCC? Ignorance is not an excuse and being naive is not a virtue. You repeat your nursery rhyme logic as if God can be completely understood and defined and dissected so that you can tell us what God would have us to do with Mary. She is accepted as a member of Christs redeemed. That's honor enough. When you go beyond the bounds of what is revealed in Scripture (Marys sinlessness, Immaculate Conception and eternal virginity), then you trainwreck over the cliff into an abyss of speculation and fantasyland which does not please or honor God.
All of those truths about Mary ARE taught in Scripture, as shown in BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER by Tim Staples.
Quite natural to be inventing things. They are after all lead by the magicsteeringthem. Their traditions are superior to even the words of Jesus. So they can manufacture a wholeneed for Jesus to have help with His Work and thus, voila! The Mediatrix!
I fear you do not understand what it will mean for the world to experience a direct and unveiled encounter with the unavoidable Truth, how unbearable it will be for those not conformed to Christ, to be in his presence. That is why we call it judgment.
Who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth?
Everything and everyone failing to give glory by signifying him will flee him, because his very presence will be an unavoidable, unendurable judgment. Those who did nothing more than cry Lord, Lord while refusing to conform themselves in his image, will not be saved.
AG: All of those truths about Mary ARE taught in Scripture, as shown in BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER by Tim Staples.
No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture.
http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6056
Yet catholics perpetuate this false teaching in spite of this fact.
Eternal virginity: Also denied by Scripture in that Mary and Joseph had other children after Jesus was born. Paul records in Galatians 1:19 he visited James, the Lord's brother.
Matthew 1:25 notes Joseph kept her a virgin until she gave birth to Christ. If he didn't then Paul is a liar in his writing above.
If roman catholicism really believed Mary was an eternal virign they would have included the Protoevangelium of James in their canon when they had the chance at Trent. That they didn't is telling.
So there we have repudiation by Scripture of these roman catholic claims regarding Mary.
Maybe if Tim Staples knew a little Greek, knew how to read Scripture in context and ditched the contradictory writings of the ECFs he might see this.
Sadly, roman catholicism will continue to advance further false teachings on Mary when the Fifth Marian dogma is given the ok.
There just isn't enough support for it just yet.....yet.
Exactly how would that look? In the one incident in Scripture when someone tried to honor Mary, her son deflected it away from her:
While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed." But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it." (Luke 11:27-28)
It appears that the Protestants who don't obsess on all things Mary are more in line with the actions of Jesus than the Catholics.
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