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To: oh8eleven; Swordmaker

Depends on what you require as a level of “proof”.

It is rather amazing to read other descriptions of the wounds on the body of the image. Just as in a criminal case - the evidence may or may not meet the level of proof requires. Obviously, to say something is the image of Jesus requires a high level of evidence.

But the wounds are very interesting. I may be off on some of these, but iirc; the whip marks are far too many for any normal beating. And a normal prisoner was sentence to a whipping OR a cruxifiction, not both. There are abrasions on the image’s shoulders (from carrying a cross). The sword wound in the side - Jesus died a rather quick death - so they did not need to break his legs to hasten death. (No broken bones on the image).

The crown of thorns for the “King” is an obvious clue - not sure how common that was.

The three-dimensional imprint on both the top and bottom indicates the body and fabric were suspended in air at the time the image was made. Some physicist compares it to a mini “Big Bang” event were gravity was suspended.

But yes - whether one believes the image is of Jesus or not ultimately depends on faith. BUT — did God allow the Shroud to survive this long, and for science to help provide some clues on what it is about. And is it being better understood (”proven”?) now for some reason only known to God?

And while it matters none to my faith, the Shroud has brought many scientists that have studied it to faith.


47 posted on 09/01/2015 12:59:43 AM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts It is happening again.)
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To: 21twelve
But the wounds are very interesting. I may be off on some of these, but iirc; the whip marks are far too many for any normal beating. And a normal prisoner was sentence to a whipping OR a cruxifiction, not both. There are abrasions on the image’s shoulders (from carrying a cross). The sword wound in the side - Jesus died a rather quick death - so they did not need to break his legs to hasten death. (No broken bones on the image).

Couple of corrections. It was not a mere whip, but a much crueler device called a flagrum which had three leather thongs with either two dumbell shaped iron objects at the end of each thong or three lead balls tied in a row, about a half inch in diameter each. Each stroke with this monstrous device would tear skin and wound deeply, inflicting six to nine wounds each time. Some flagrum so had star shaped metal barbs instead of balls.

There were as many as one hundred and twenty-nine separate strikes on the man on the Shroud determined by counting the double and triple wounds that can still be seen. Divided by three and that means more than the forty strikes allowed in Jewish law, which by tradition was always limited to 39, to avoid an accidental miscount. The likelihood is there were fifty, administered by two different soldiers who were experts at administering scourging. We know this because they were from both sides and the ones administered on the left were at a lower angle than thos on the right, indicating a shorter man. They did both sides of the body, from knees to shoulders. He would have been covered with lacerations and bruises.

The beating would put even a strong man used to carrying large wooden beams, such as a carpenter, into shock. It is no wonder he fell on the way to Golgotha under the weight of the patibulum.

It is also no wonder he died quickly on the cross. he was already in shock.

The wound in the side was not administered by a sword but by a legionnaires lancia. The wound on the Man on the Shroud is just exactly the size and shape of the standard issue Roman Lancia. The sera (water) flowing from the side was the result of the severe beating, blood breakdown products pooling in the pericardium sac around the heart, making it harder and harder for the heart to beat, as well as pooling in the lungs. The lancia penetrated the lungs, then the pericardium, releasing the clear fluid, then penetrated the heart, releasing a low of blood. Water then blood. . .

The dorsal image does show some flattening of the buttocks and shoulders where they rested on the limestone shelf under the cloth, so whether or not there was any levitation is speculative.

I follow the science and scholarship.

48 posted on 09/01/2015 1:31:31 AM PDT by Swordmaker ( This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue...)
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