Posted on 10/08/2015 8:02:23 AM PDT by Salvation
As a young child I was very close to God. I spoke to Him in a very natural way and He spoke plainly to me. Although I have very few memories of my early childhood, I vividly remember how close I was to God. When early puberty approached, though, I began to slip away, drifting into the rebellious and angry years of my teens. As the flesh came more alive, my spirit submerged.
The culture of the time didn’t help, either. It was the late 1960s and early 1970s and rebelliousness and the flesh were celebrated as “virtues.” Somehow we thought ourselves more mature than our pathetic forebears, who were hopelessly “repressed.” There was the attitude among the young that we had come of age somehow. We collectively deluded ourselves, aided by the messages of rock music and the haze of drug use, that we were somehow “better.”
So it was the winter of my soul. The vivid faith of my childhood gave way to a kind of indifferent agnosticism. Though I never formally left Church (my mother would never had permitted that as long as I lived in under my parents’ roof), I no longer heard God or spoke to Him. I’ve mentioned in previous posts that when I was in high school I joined the youth choir of my parish church. This was not precipitated by a religious passion, but rather by a passion of another kind: there were pretty girls in the choir and I “sought their company,” shall we say. But God has a way of using beauty to draw us to the truth. Week after week, year after year, as we sang those old religious classics a buried faith began to awaken within me.
But what to do? How to pray? I heard that I was supposed to pray. But how? As a child it had been natural to talk with God. But now He seemed distant, aloof, and likely angry with me. And I’ll admit it, prayer seemed a little “goofy” to me, a high school senior still struggling to be “cool” in his own eyes and in the eyes of his friends. Not only that, but prayer was “boring.” It seemed an unfocused, unstructured, and “goofy” thing.
But I knew someone who did pray. My paternal grandmother, “Nana,” was a real prayer warrior. Every day she took out her beads and sat by the window to pray. I had seen my mother pray now and again, but she was more private about it. But Nana, who lived with us off and on in her last years, knew how to pray and you could see it every day.
Rosary Redivivus – In my parish church of the 1970s, the rosary was non-existent. Devotions and adoration were on the outs during that sterile time. Even the Crucifix was gone. But Nana had that “old-time religion” and I learned to appreciate it through her.
Ad Jesum per Mariam – There are some, non-Catholics especially, who think that talking of Mary or focusing on her in any way takes away from Christ. It is as though they consider it a zero-sum game, in which our hearts cannot love both Mary and Jesus. But my own experience was that Mary led me to Christ. I had struggled to know and worship Christ, but somehow a mother’s love felt more natural, safer, and more accessible to me. So I began there, where I could. Simply pole-vaulting right into a mature faith from where I was did not seem possible. So I began, as a little child again, holding my Mother’s hand. And gently, Mother Mary led me to Christ, her son. Through the rosary, that “Gospel on a string,” I became reacquainted with the basic gospel story.
The thing about Marian devotion is that it opens up a whole world. For with this devotion comes an open door into so many of the other traditions and devotions of the Church: Eucharistic adoration, litanies, traditional Marian hymns, lighting candles, modesty, pious demeanor, and so forth. So as Mary led me, she also reconnected me to many things that I only vaguely remembered. The suburban Catholicism of the 1970s had all but cast these things aside, and I had lost them as well. Now in my late teens, I was going up into the Church “attic” and bringing things down. Thus, little by little, Mother Mary was helping me to put things back in place. I remember my own mother being pleased to discover that I had taken some old religious statues, stashed away in a drawer in my room, and placed them out on my dresser once again. I also took down the crazy rock-and-roll posters, one by one, and replaced them with traditional art, including a picture of Mary.
Over time, praying the Rosary and talking to Mary began to feel natural. And, sure enough, little by little, I began to speak with God. It was when I was in the middle of college that I began to sense the call to the priesthood. I had become the choir director by that time and took a new job in a city parish: you guessed it, “St. Mary’s.” There, the sterility of suburban Catholicism had never taken hold. The candles burned brightly at the side altars. The beautiful windows, marble altars, statues, and traditional novenas were all on display in Mother Mary’s parish. The rest is history. Mary cemented the deal between me and her Son, Jesus. I became His priest and now I can’t stop talking about Him! He is my hero, my savior and Lord. And praying again to God has become more natural and more deeply spiritual for me.
It all began one day when I took Mary’s hand and let her lead me to Christ. And hasn’t that always been her role? She, by God’s grace, brought Christ to us, showed Him to us at Bethlehem, presented Him in the Temple, and ushered in His first miracle (even despite His reluctance). She said to the stewards that day at Cana, and to us now, “Do whatever he tells you.” The Gospel of John says, Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him (John 2:11). And so Mary’s intercession strengthened the faith of others in her Son. That has always been her role: to take us by the hand and lead us to Christ. Her rosary has been called the “Gospel on a string” because she bids us to reflect on the central mysteries of the Scripture as we pray.
It’s also very ill-advised to call Scripture “superstition”.
That wasn't a title conferred by God...That was a statement by Mary on how she perceived future generations would look at her...As if people would go around saying to and about Mary, 'you lucky dog' you were the one picked by God to carry the Messiah...And what does blessed mean anyway???
μακαρίζω
makarizō
mak-ar-id'-zo
From G3107; to beatify, that is, pronounce (or esteem) fortunate: - call blessed, count happy.
It means that Mary was exceedingly happy...Perhaps she was even patting herself on the back for being chosen...
But Jesus quelled any notion that Mary being blessed had any special meaning...
Luk 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
Luk 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
We are just as blessed as Mary was for keeping God's word...In fact, Jesus told us we are blessed but he never told Mary she was blessed...
The word in question, μακαριοῦσίν, is actually a verb. In this verse it is in the future tense.
The literal translation reads, will count be blessed.
The Greek rendering is μακαριοῦσίν με, will count blessed me.
What's interesting is Luke does not use the emphatic pronoun in this passage. This would have been εμε. (note: there would be epsilon over the first eta and an accent on the last eta but I can't get my computer to make those).
This form would be used when the writer is attempting to emphasize a difference, usually with another person. That Luke did not use this in this passage indicates the humbleness of Mary.
It also another case of the Greek not supporting what catholicism has built Mary up to.
We do study the word. That’s one of those gratuitous slams that gets you guys in trouble so just back off.
Kneeling before a statute is forbidden by God in the second commandment.
Exodus 20:4-6 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
You may take offense to that.
So you run to the mod??
You ask me the following in a prior post: Do you hate your mother?
Did I run to the mod? Nope. And this could be understood to be a far more personal attack that saying catholics need to study the Word more.
Catholics sure seem to have thin skin when challenged on their understanding of the Word.
Those who will count Mary blessed are future generation, as she states in her Magnificat (”all generations.”) That would be us.
Actually, it's not a slam.
I grew up in a Catholic family, lived in a heavily Catholic community, worked with mostly Catholic co-workers, and can count on one finger the number of Catholics I knew who studied the Bible.
So some Catholics study the Bible. There's always a few exceptions to every rule. And the rule is that most people who name the name of Catholic, don't give a rip about anything spiritual but getting in and out of mass as late and early as possible to fulfill their obligation.
When all else fails, attack the messenger and try to discredit him.
The last resort tactic of someone who is losing an argument so badly that they have no other recourse.
Actually, that is not correct.
Catholics call her MOTHER of GOD, thus effectively putting her above God.
However, it is not a title and should not be used as such.
Remember, it is a verb....not an adjective.
Us who are blessed in the same way as Mary.
Mary and Grace
The word grace used in this passage in Luke is used in one other place in the Bible and that is Ephesians 1 where Paul tells us that with this same grace, God has blessed us (believers) in the Beloved. IOW, we all have access to that grace and it has been bestowed on us all.
http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm
Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
Ephesians 1:4-6 In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Greek word “grace”
charitoó: to make graceful, endow with grace
Original Word: χαριτόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: charitoó
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)
Short Definition: I favor, bestow freely on
Definition: I favor, bestow freely on.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).
Word Origin: from charis
Definition: to make graceful, endow with grace
NASB Translation: favored (1), freely bestowed (1).
Actually, the Catholic church gives her the very titles which are given to God in the Bible, thus putting her on equal footing with Him.
From the Catechism of the Catholic church....
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm
969 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation .... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”510
Names of God from the Bible. Compare them to the names given to Mary in the above prayer.
Jesus
Hope (our) - 1 Timothy 1:1
Counselor - Isaiah 9:6
Advocate - 1 John 2:1
Mediator - 1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 12:24
Holy Spirit
Comforter - John 14:26
Helper – John 14:16
This is worship of Mary if ever there was.....Attributing to her the attributes of God is idolatry.
We have two intercessors in heaven and neither one of them is Mary, nor is Mary mentioned as having an office of intercession in heaven.
Romans 8:26-27 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:33-34 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Hebrews 7:25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
That’s an excellent reminder and another example of how far catholicism is removed from the truth. It is a further reminder catholicism does not rightly handle the Word.
This needs to be addressed... The Bible is like a Catholic family album and having people tell us that we don't know what's in it is like someone telling you that you don't know your aunt Harry from your uncle Louise. Of COURSE you know your own relatives and more importantly what they meant when they said X. To have someone, who has no business mucking around in the family album in the first place, come along and tell you that they understand your family better than you is EXTREMELY annoying. What should one expect, an invitation to the family reunion?
This really all goes back to my theory that the whole Jews/Samaritans mess is repeating itself in Catholics/Protestants, but that's another discussion entirely.
My children don't know chapter and verse of Sacred Scripture but they know Scripture, and they are a part of the Family that it is written to. Outsiders really don't know what they are talking about and it WOULD be laughable if it weren't so deadly an issue. When I was their ages I could rattle off chapter and verse well enough to spin heads (my father is a retired preacher) but as I look back I can say I didn't know squat about it. I knew johnny-come-lately Protestant interpretations of various verses and had the Protestant world view that backed that up. That's one of the reasons that when the time came for me to make my own choices I chose atheism... a place I would still be today were it not for God all but physically dragging me into the Catholic Church.
The tl;dr version is: It's our Book, go interpret something else.
As for titles, I could call some fellow Christian "blessed ealgeone" or "blessed metmom" and it would not offend God: it would glorify Him Who gives the blessing.
Yes, Mother of God Incarnate. I have no problem with that. I agree.
This Wikipedia page on “Theotokos” is a fairly good description of this matter, I believe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theotokos
“Theotokos (/ˌθiəˈtɒkəs/; Greek: Θεοτόκος, transliterated (Greek) Theotókos, translation (Syriac-Aramaic): ܝܳܠܕܰܬ ܐܰܠܳܗܳܐ, transliterated (Syriac): Yoldath Alloho) is the Greek title of Mary, the mother of Jesus used especially in the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Eastern Catholic Churches. Its literal English translations include "God-bearer", "Birth-Giver of God" and "the one who gives birth to God." Less accurate translations include the primarily Western title "Mother of God" (Latin: Mater Dei).”
"The English term Mother of God is mostly used as an imprecise translation of Theotokos, but with a note that Mary did not create the divine person of Jesus, who existed with the Father from all eternity,[12] she is not the source of her Son’s divinity.[13] The other principal use of Mother of God has been as the precise and literal translation of Μήτηρ Θεού, a Greek term which has an established usage of its own in traditional Orthodox and Catholic theological writing, hymnography, and iconography. In an abbreviated form, ΜΡ ΘΥ, it often is found on Eastern icons (see illustration above), where it is used to identify Mary.
"Within the Orthodox and Catholic tradition, Mother of God has not been understood, nor been intended to be understood, as referring to Mary as Mother of God from eternity — that is, as Mother of God the Father — but only with reference to the birth of Jesus, that is, the Incarnation. This limitation in the meaning of Mother of God must be understood by the person employing the term. To make it explicit, it is sometimes translated Mother of God Incarnate.[14]
"However, those reading or hearing the English phrase Mother of God as a translation of a Greek text cannot — unless they know the Greek text in question, or obtain additional information — know whether the phrase is a literal translation of Μήτηρ Θεού, or an imprecise rendering of Θεοτόκος, or one its Latin equivalents or equivalents in other languages. On the other hand, Theotokos and its precise translations explicitly relate Mary's motherhood to Jesus' birth in time and exclude any reference to Mary as Mother of God from eternity."
“Theotokos specifically excludes the understanding of Mary as Mother of God in the eternal sense. Christians believe that God is the cause of all, with neither origin nor source, and is therefore without a mother or father, or any relation except for what is homoousian to Him: only the persons of the Holy Trinity. He is ontologically separate from all other beings, as Creator to creation. This stands in contrast to classical Greco-Roman religion in particular, where a number of goddesses appear as the physical mothers of other divinities which were considered gods in their own right (cf. Polytheism)."
There is no basis to call Mary the “Queen of Heaven” because she is “Mother of God Incarnate.”
You may be the exception. From discussions I've had with former catholics they readily admit what metmom has indicated regarding the Word.
To be fair, there are a fair number of Christians who do not know or handle the Word either. However, our discussion on this thread have been regarding catholics.
I've given several examples of catholic misapplication of the Word regarding Mary.
From what I've seen on this board some catholics aren't so up to speed on the CCC either.
To be clear on one thing though....the Bible is not YOUR book.
It is the Word of God and is open to ALL who wish to study and learn.
However, not as used in the passage we were discussing. To continue to insist it is is disingenuous.
That's why it's essential to understand the original languages so we'll better understand the Word.
“She is a creature. Created by God.”
Indeed she is.
“She is why Jesus is both God and man.”
I wouldn’t say that “she is why” – the reason behind – Jesus being both God and man. The reason is solely God. It was God’s plan from before Creation. Jesus was and is “the lamb slain *from the foundation of the world.* God wasn’t just working with what He had to work with, like we do. He made things, including people, in advance, with His infinite foresight and power, as they needed to be for His purposes. He created, for example, the dove as a figure of the Holy Spirit. He created sheep and lambs and the idea of the shepherd for a similar reason, as figures of Jesus as the Shepherd and those who trust in Him as their Savior as sheep, and lambs.
And consider this, too, when Catholic doctrine speaks of one “cooperating” with God, including when it speaks of Mary doing so:
7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. (Luke 17)
When we obey God, when we do “good works,” we’re only doing what we’re supposed to be doing in the first place, and actually, because it’s God will for us, it’s what’s best for us, including for our ultimate happiness, if we have faith that God’s will is what’s right and what’s best for us.
“Because he was man he was able to suffer and die for our sins and to redeem us from original sin.”
Any remarks on yourself as a sinner, as I wrote about?
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