Some differences between Catholics and Lutherans on Baptism, Eucharist, Priesthood

WDTPRS ^ | November 18, 2015 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

[NYer]

In a comment elsewhere, someone wondered about differences between Catholics and Lutherans.  HERE

I cannot go into deep detail about these differences.  Books can be written about each point, and have been.

Here are my lunch break reflections while the US Bishops are having lunch during their annual meeting.

Keep in mind that I am a former Lutheran convert to the Catholic Church.  I was validly baptized as a Lutheran.  I rejected the Lutheran catechism and instruction when I was 7 years old because I couldn’t square their message about corruption with the beauty of the music of Mozart.  After a vaguely Christian time and a pagan period I was brought into the Church formally in 1982 following private instruction lasting a couple years and involvement in the choir at St. Agnes in St. Paul. My longer story is elsewhere. I made my Profession of Faith according to the traditional, longer form, as found in the Rituale Romanum HERE, publicly during a Vespers service, kneeling in the sanctuary before the Blessed Sacrament exposed.  I renewed my Profession of Faith before I was ordained to the diaconate and to the priesthood at the hands of St. John Paul II.

We Catholics believe all that is contained in the teachings of the Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent and in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the revealed and defined teachings of the Scriptures and the Magisterium.  God teaches us these things through the Church and we are bound to give assent to them with mind and will.  As we say in the Act of Faith, I firmly believe the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, because God has revealed them, Who can neither deceive nor be deceived.

Catholics believe that Christ instituted seven sacraments.  They are outward signs, instituted by Christ, which confer grace.

Lutherans believe in only two sacraments for sure, Baptism and Eucharist, with a possibility of Penance.

They believe different things about the effects of those sacraments.

Insofar as Baptism is concerned, Lutherans believe that, through Baptism, God declares that a sinner is just, counts a sinner among the just, by reason of the imputation (covering of the sinner) with the merits of Christ. The sinner remains corrupt in sin, but the “alien” (i.e., from outside of the sinner, from Christ) merits of Christ cover him over and make him to seem justified. This is a once and for all time event. There are other issues too, concerning grace and works, grace and freedom of will, justification by grace or by faith alone, etc. That said, Baptism conferred by Lutherans is valid despite differences in belief in the effects of Baptism. Some Protestants think that Baptism is only an outward, public sign of one’s inward faith, and that it does not forgive sins or renew us interiorly.

Catholics believe that justification takes a person out of the state of Original Sin and into a state of being an adopted child of God through the action and graces and merits of Christ. Justification is ongoing together with Sanctification, by which the person is renewed. Justification and sanctification are conferred through Baptism, which forgives sins and makes us sons of God and members of the Body of Christ, the Church. The Holy Spirit, infused into us with baptism, justifies and sanctifies us. With the indwelling of the Holy Spirit comes sanctifying grace, which can be lost through sins that are deadly to the spirit, mortal. This state can be regained through the normal means of the Sacrament of Penance (and certain other ways).

As far as the Eucharist is concerned, Catholics believe that, with the consecration by a validly ordained priest (Lutherans do not believe in sacramental ordination that confers an ontological character – rather, every man is his own priest), bread and wine are changed in their substance into the Body and Blood of Christ even though the outward appearance and characteristic accidents of bread and wine remain for our human senses. After this change of substance, trans-substantiation, Christ is truly present in the Eucharistic species, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. So long as the outward accidents remain and the species are recognizable as, in their accidents, being bread and wine, they are still the Eucharist and Christ is truly present in them, even in very small quantities of the Eucharistic Body and Blood. When the Eucharistic species are destroyed or significantly altered in their outward accidents, they cease being the Eucharist and Christ is no longer present in them. Furthermore, we Catholic believe that the celebration of the Eucharist represents and renews and makes present again both the Last Supper of the Lord during His Passion as well as the Sacrifice of Cross on Calvary. The celebration of the Eucharist is Christ’s atoning, propitiatory Sacrifice, which, though it occurred at one fixed point in time, is renewed and made present again through the actions of the priest, who acts as alter Christus. Mass is the true, real, renewal of the Sacrifice in an unbloody way that once took place in a bloody way, historically, on Calvary. This is done through the actions and words of the ordained priest.

Lutherans believe that anyone can celebrate the “Lord’s Supper” (some few Lutherans call it “Mass”) though some are called by the community to preside in the central role. The Lord’s Supper is not the Sacrifice renewed. Lutherans do not believe that the substance of bread and wine change, transubstantiation. They think that Christ is present together with the bread and wine for as long as Christ is needed to be there, a kind of “consubstantiation”. (Some Lutherans don’t like that term, but I’m not getting into that fight.) That is to say, that for Christ to be present, there must be institution, distribution and reception.  If it is not received, Christ isn’t present.  Once no longer needed there for reception, Christ is no longer present and there is left merely bread and wine. They believe Christ is truly present, when required for reception, but not in an enduring way. Luther used the image an iron that is heated and then it cools again: the iron and the heat are there together and then only the iron is there.  However, some Lutheran churches are starting to reserve their eucharistic species and even to adore what they reserve, even kneeling outside their eucharistic communion services.  An interesting development as they become more “sacramental”.  Furthermore, the Lord’s Supper is a memorial merely. It does not renew the Sacrifice of Calvary or the Last Supper, but rather commemorates them. Lutherans believe in a priesthood of all believers. There is no sacramental priesthood or consecration of the Eucharist or sacramental absolution of sins or conferral of confirmation. Matrimony is not a sacrament, nor is anointing. Lutherans have two sacraments, Baptism and “Eucharist”. Their baptism is valid because water is poured on the skin while the Trinitarian form is pronounced. Their “Eucharist” is not the Eucharist. They do not believe it is a sacrament in the sense we do and there is no valid priesthood to confect it, etc. They do not believe, as Catholics do, that sacraments are outward signs instituted by Christ Himself that confer grace. For Lutherans, they are outward signs of realities that are taking place.

Also, I recall when I was younger that, at the Luther Northwestern Seminary in my native place, they would annually have their Lutheran form of “Mass” in Latin.  Yes, there are/were such things.

Lutherans, in a way, look on their confession of sins as a sacrament. Luther referred to “penance” as a sacrament in the Large Catechism. Some Lutheran prayerbooks have a rite for penance. But they do not believe that the action and words of the one who hears that confession and pronounces words of forgiveness are sacramentally effective, as when the Catholic priest gives absolution.

This isn’t everything that can be said about differences between Catholic and Lutheran beliefs.  Books are written about each aspect I touched on.  But this is a start for those who know very little about them.

However, if you are a true Lutheran, you don’t believe what the Catholic Church believes about Eucharist and Priesthood.  Not believing what we believe, you cannot receive Communion in the Catholic Church.  If you believe what the Catholic Church teaches… then you had better become a Catholic in order to be true to yourself.

I would also say, if you are Catholic but you don’t adhere to Catholic teaching, you are in serious trouble, particularly if you have been properly instructed and you choose against Catholic teachings.

The Second Vatican Council issued a spiritual warning in Lumen gentium 14.  Here it is via the Catechism of the Catholic Church when addressing the issue of salvation outside the Church (846ff):

How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it(LG 14).

I quoted LG 14 via the CCC to show that what LG 14 contains isn’t obsolete.

If you are not Catholic, but you have come to believe what the Catholic Church teaches, and you refuse to enter the Church by your own will (not because you are afraid, etc.), you are in serious peril for your eternal soul.

If you are Catholic, but you pick and choose what to believe among those teaches that you are bound to accept, you are in serious peril for your eternal soul.

So, convert if you need conversion.  That might mean for some of you Catholic who won’t submit to the Church’s teachings… don’t put others in peril by your lack of submission and your heresy.  We would prefer to see you come around and believe, and the door is always open to you, but otherwise… get out.

[NYer]

CATHOLIC / LUTHERAN CAUCUS

[NYer]

Catholic ping!

[BubbaBasher]

I disagree with many of your ascertains and I’m sure at seven years old you were fully qualified to judge church doctrine. And what the hell does Mozart have do with anything? Anyone reading the post above should take the time to do their own research and not take anything written here as gospel.

[miss marmelstein]

Briefly, I would say that God spoke through Mozart. As he did through Michelangelo.

[Jim Robinson]

Who the hell cares about Christian denominational differences? We’re under siege by hordes of barbaric Muslim invaders hellbent on hostile takeover, conquest and domination!

[dfwgator]

God created Rap and Hip-Hop and a warning of hell.

Well that, and Kenny G.

[reg45]

God created Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven to provide a preview of heaven.

God created rap and hip-hop as a warning of hell.

[miss marmelstein]

Nice comment.

[GreyFriar]

Jim, I agree. To quote Benjamin Franklin: “United we stand, divided we fall.”

[Jim Robinson]

This Is The Most Disturbing Muslim ‘Refugee’ Video You Will Ever See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoZwIDlIL5Q

[pbear8]

This was written for a Catholic audience by a priest I know in response to reports about Catholic-Lutheran inter-Communion. which have been floating around recently. Some of the blog readers asked about Lutherans beliefs and Fr Z, a convert from Lutheranism, is trying to inform his readership why there cannot be inter-Communion. He is not calling names or saying evil of them, he is simply outlining the differences that have existed for 500 years.

[freemama]

I am Lutheran. This priest has inaccuracies in what he states we believe.

I believe the point of his writing is to show that Lutherans should not commune with Catholics. In that he is right.

We do NOT believe the Sacrament of the Altar in the same way. Why would we want to participate in that together if we do not see it the same way?

[NYer]

OMG! Thank you for posting the link. It corroborates what the reports that 72% of this “immigrants” are male. This is an invasion, not a migration. What can we do to help disseminate this video on a broader scale?

[MacombBob]

I am Lutheran and he must be writing about some other denomination. Perhaps at seven he did not have a firm grasp of what denomination he was leaving.

[xone]

The good Father has a seven year olds’ understanding of Lutheran doctrine. Totally understandable as a Catholic.

[norwaypinesavage]

Catholics sing three hymns during their service, Lutherans sing two. There is simply NO WAY to reconcile that.

[Daffy]

Fr. Z. admits “I cannot go into deep detail about these differences [of belief]. Books can be written about each point, and have been.”

I understand the Lutheran Church is divided into ELCA and MS. Perhaps you are of one and not the other.

[xone]

I understand the Lutheran Church is divided into ELCA and MS.

Lutheranism is defined by the the Book of Concord, those that adhere to those doctrines are Lutheran, those that don't can call themselves whatever they want.

His lack of understanding is noted (just once) here: Lutherans believe that anyone can celebrate the “Lord’s Supper” (some few Lutherans call it “Mass”) though some are called by the community to preside in the central role. The Lord’s Supper is not the Sacrifice renewed. Lutherans do not believe that the substance of bread and wine change, transubstantiation. They think that Christ is present together with the bread and wine for as long as Christ is needed to be there, a kind of “consubstantiation”. (Some Lutherans don’t like that term, but I’m not getting into that fight.)

While he states 'Some Lutherans don’t like that term' the fact is is that it is false. So we don't like it because it isn't true. Very little research is required to figure that fact out. He didn't do it, and repeated what he was told or taught. Just like a seven-year old.

As for your statement above, Lutherans are divided into those that hold to the Book of Concord, and those that don't. Some call themselves Lutheran Christians and some really are.