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To: HiTech RedNeck

Perchance the solution is that it takes two “yes” votes to elect? Not just one?

Also, that there is usually no “no” vote on His part, for nothing need ever be done for someone to perish. We are not told, for example, that all things work to the harm of those who can’t seem to love Him and likewise of all humanity it was only said, in so far as scripture is concerned, of just one man, Judas Iscariot, that it would have been better for him to have not been born.

Rather, we find all His effort on the side of rescuing the elect, through His providence and, yes, outright in-your-face efforts (Paul cannot be the only one).

I think that people, in fantasizing about things like human “goodness”, may be utterly underselling the sheer effort it takes to redeem anyone. Not just the Cross but every struggle in every life so that we should finally come to agree with Him, His will, in our wills: to relent, repent and be washed. To vote “yes”.

Salvation is heroic effort. Nothing less. It is making the blind to see and the deaf to hear ... often when they were perfectly content to remain blind or deaf but that He broke through to them.

The saints are so often like post turtles who confuse our struggles with actual climbing, but we never put ourselves where we find ourselves even if our little legs do flail a bit.


145 posted on 01/03/2016 12:57:58 AM PST by Rurudyne (Standup Philosopher)
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To: Rurudyne

The more I’ve lived in this faith, the more it looks to me like a gracious God has put the onus of refusal utterly on humanity. The timing of the work of salvation “as seen in this mortal coil” does not come instantly upon the acceptance; that is why it is true when Paul says in Romans that it depends not on the man who wills or runs, but on the Lord who has mercy. The years of time are a miniature stage upon which the drama of the Lord’s work plays out and the work of mercy can be seen to have its fruit. I can certainly vouch for that from experience. But the “promise” does come instantly. That is consistent with Jesus’ “whosoever will.”


148 posted on 01/03/2016 2:41:05 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Rurudyne

Anyhow, perspective probably explains everything that needs to be explained about the biblical paradoxes of destiny/election vs. choice. The Lord has access to perspectives or “angles” that transcend what we see in this world. Trying to mix the perspectives in discussion only reduces the discussion to nonsense, and we need to get a fix upon what perspective is intended when making out a scripture verse (and the Holy Spirit does that without need for human philosophizing, but some people don’t get the point and sound off anyhow as though they had, leading to pointless discord).


149 posted on 01/03/2016 2:54:26 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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