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Perpetual virginity
OSV.com ^ | 03-09-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 03/12/2016 9:36:07 AM PST by Salvation

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The teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary does not rise or fall on one word, rather, a body of evidence from other sources such as: Mary’s question to the angel as to how a betrothed virgin would conceive; Jesus entrusting Mary to the care of a non-blood relative at this death; and also the long witness of ancient Tradition.
1 posted on 03/12/2016 9:36:07 AM PST by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Monsignor Pope Ping from OSV column.


2 posted on 03/12/2016 9:37:23 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

No Biblical evidence that dear Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Christ.
No evidence any Apostle believed it.
No prophecy requires it.
To remain a virgin is a violation of God’s expressed command to be fruitful and multiply.
To remain a virgin is a violation of God’s expressed desire that married couples have sex.

It is, in short, made up out of whole cloth.

Simply an attempt to make Mary a demigoddess.


3 posted on 03/12/2016 9:41:29 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (BREAKING.... Vulgarian Resistance begins attack on the GOPe Death Star.....)
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To: Salvation

So your interpretation here is that in this context “until” meant “never did”?


4 posted on 03/12/2016 9:42:35 AM PST by Delta 21 (Patiently waiting for the jack booted kick at my door.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Agreed. The cult of Mary as practiced by some religions is simply a continuation of the Great Mother of Mediterranean lands


5 posted on 03/12/2016 9:48:31 AM PST by AEMILIUS PAULUS
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To: Salvation
The teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary does not rise or fall on one word, rather, a body of evidence from other sources such as: Mary’s question to the angel as to how a betrothed virgin would conceive; Jesus entrusting Mary to the care of a non-blood relative at this death; and also the long witness of ancient Tradition.

A simple reading of the Word in context will clear this up.

Mary’s question to the angel as to how a betrothed virgin would conceive

26Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” 29But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. 30The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32“He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” 34Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

The meaning of the Greek in v34 is that Mary had not had not known a man sexually.

097 ginṓskō – properly, to know, especially through personal experience (first-hand acquaintance). 1097 /ginṓskō ("experientially know") is used for example in Lk 1:34, "And Mary [a virgin] said to the angel, 'How will this be since I do not know (1097 /ginṓskō = sexual intimacy) a man?'"Mary understood the birds and the bees.HELPS Word-studies

There is nothing...repeat NOTHING in this passage that ever remotely hints this was a pledge of perpetual virginity. NOTHING.

Jesus entrusting Mary to the care of a non-blood relative at this death

The passage in John where Jesus entrusts Mary to John has nothing to do with the issue of virginity. It is well established in the Word that Joseph and Mary had other children.

Perhaps if the msgr knew his Greek a little better he'd understand this in context.

The appeal to "Tradition" is dismissed. If the catholic is appealing to the protoevangelium of James they are really on very, very thin ground.

6 posted on 03/12/2016 9:48:51 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Doesn’t the Bible say Jesus had siblings? I guess some people say the word should be translated “cousins,” but the arguments could go on forever.

I just don’t see why God would require Joseph and Mary to remain celibate forever. They were so obedient to Him; why wouldn’t God allow them, after the birth of Jesus, to have a normal marriage and more children? I don’t think a normal marriage and additional children would take anything away from Mary and what a special, obedient, and wonderful woman she was.


7 posted on 03/12/2016 9:51:29 AM PST by Nea Wood
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
To remain a virgin is a violation of God’s expressed command to be fruitful and multiply.

You don't think Mary was fruitful?

She gave birth to Jesus Christ.

Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

8 posted on 03/12/2016 9:52:08 AM PST by agere_contra (Hamas has dug miles of tunnels - but no bomb-shelters.)
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To: agere_contra
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Beautiful prophecy that says nothing about perpetual virginity.

9 posted on 03/12/2016 9:53:32 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (BREAKING.... Vulgarian Resistance begins attack on the GOPe Death Star.....)
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To: ealgeone
It is well established in the Word that Joseph and Mary had other children.

No, it is not.

10 posted on 03/12/2016 9:53:48 AM PST by agere_contra (Hamas has dug miles of tunnels - but no bomb-shelters.)
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To: ealgeone
Perhaps if the msgr knew his Greek a little better he'd understand this in context.

Not to mention the Scriptures themselves.

11 posted on 03/12/2016 9:54:06 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (BREAKING.... Vulgarian Resistance begins attack on the GOPe Death Star.....)
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To: agere_contra
Read the Word. It's crystal clear when read in context.

Paul calls James the Lord's brother.

12 posted on 03/12/2016 9:55:46 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: agere_contra

And that indicates perpetual virginity just how?


13 posted on 03/12/2016 9:56:46 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

If Mary had other children, then why did Christ create a new son for her on the cross?

Christ was Mary’s only child.


14 posted on 03/12/2016 9:57:18 AM PST by agere_contra (Hamas has dug miles of tunnels - but no bomb-shelters.)
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To: Salvation

Never let the text of scripture interfere with your presuppositions. It makes theology much more interesting.


15 posted on 03/12/2016 9:57:31 AM PST by lurk
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To: agere_contra
If Mary had other children, then why did Christ create a new son for her on the cross?

Christ instructed John to take care of her as his mother. Apparently, at that moment of His death, no other siblings were in attendance.

In any case, Christ commanded. John obeyed.

16 posted on 03/12/2016 10:00:26 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (BREAKING.... Vulgarian Resistance begins attack on the GOPe Death Star.....)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; boatbums; caww; CynicalBear; daniel1212; dragonblustar; ...

The marriage bed is undefiled.

Sex between a husband and wife is good and proper.

Denying each other is what’s wrong.

Mary was already betrothed to Joseph. She was already his wife when the angel visited her.


17 posted on 03/12/2016 10:02:21 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom

This again?


18 posted on 03/12/2016 10:04:14 AM PST by Mark17 (Thank God I have Jesus, there's more wealth in my soul than acres of diamonds and mountains of gold)
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To: Mark17

Yup.


19 posted on 03/12/2016 10:04:57 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: agere_contra
If Mary had other children, then why did Christ create a new son for her on the cross?

He didn't.

Christ was Mary’s only child.

An non proveable and contrary to evidence statement.

20 posted on 03/12/2016 10:05:18 AM PST by BipolarBob
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