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Perpetual virginity
OSV.com ^ | 03-09-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 03/12/2016 9:36:07 AM PST by Salvation

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To: terycarl; metmom; Syncro; Elsie
Yeah, Christ came to Earth to save mankind and then condemned some of His family members to Hell....Now that's really merciful.....sheesh.

He certainly WILL, if they never became Christians. Remember, only Christians will go to Heaven. To reject Him, however, would be their choice. If you want to tell Jesus you don't like the way He is running the show, knock yourself out.
Why do you care about His brothers and sisters anyway? You are a Catholic. I think you believe they did not exist. I am an ex Catholic. I believe they did exist. I just don't know if they all got saved. They might have. We just don't know. It is not important to our salvation.
If anyone, including them and you, do not wish to get saved, that's on you. He provided the way. It's up to you to respond to it. Get over it. Sheesh.

221 posted on 03/12/2016 8:36:12 PM PST by Mark17 (Thank God I have Jesus, there's more wealth in my soul than acres of diamonds and mountains of gold)
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To: ealgeone

You’re right — Jesus battles Satan.

Jesus is the seed of Mary that will crush the head of the seed of the serpent — the devil.


222 posted on 03/12/2016 8:42:05 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

But that isn’t what the official roman catholic bible says.


223 posted on 03/12/2016 8:52:31 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

*


224 posted on 03/12/2016 8:59:23 PM PST by MHGinTN (Democrats bait then switch; their fishy voters buy it every time.)
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To: MHGinTN

Meant to ping you to 221.


225 posted on 03/12/2016 9:03:11 PM PST by Mark17 (Thank God I have Jesus, there's more wealth in my soul than acres of diamonds and mountains of gold)
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To: MHGinTN

I am not aware of any Apostle or student of one of the Apostles who addressed the issue to defend perpetual virginity. Can you point me to one or two prior to 170 -200AD?


I cannot. The Apostles certainly would have known whether or not Mary had any other children, but as far as I know, there is no record of the Apostles ever commenting on this issue. The earliest document on the subject is said to have been written in the 2nd century and it wasn’t until the 3rd or 4th century that others wrote about it. From what I understand, Christians of that time believed, almost without exception, that Mary was a virgin her entire life. I’m not sure why they believed this; I may someday look at the writings from that time. For now, though, we are losing an hour and I need to retire for the night. Good Night and peace be with you.


226 posted on 03/12/2016 9:21:57 PM PST by rwa265
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To: MHGinTN
Jesus left the tomb without rolling away the stone,... I thought the tomb was found with the stone rolled away, which had been rolled away by an angel.

IMHO, Jesus Christ had to be born via the birth canal, otherwise he wouldn't have qualified as a substitute sacrifice for our sins as a human.

227 posted on 03/12/2016 9:53:53 PM PST by Cvengr ( Adversity in life & death is inevitable; Stress is optional through faith in Christ.)
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To: Salvation
In Scripture, too, we encounter “until” being used merely to indicate an indefinite period whose conditions may or may not be met. Thus, we read, “And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death” (2 Sam 6:23). Of course, this should not be taken to mean that she started having children after she died. If I say to you in English that Christ “must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet” (1 Cor 15:25), I do not mean his everlasting kingdom will actually end thereafter.

Then why didn't the Holy Spirit inspire the gospel writers to say, "Joseph knew her not until the day he died."? Wouldn't that dispel any doubt about Mary's perpetual virginity?

228 posted on 03/12/2016 10:23:33 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Elsie; terycarl

If Joseph had other older children, why didn’t they go with him and Mary to the mandatory census in Bethlehem?


229 posted on 03/12/2016 10:26:40 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: terycarl
Where on Earth did you get a reading from Genesis other than the Catholic Bible which is the only true and accurate Bible EVER.

Then why do so MANY Catholics DISBELIEVE the Creation Story?

230 posted on 03/13/2016 4:49:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Tao Yin

EVER???


231 posted on 03/13/2016 4:50:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Mark17
Remember, only Christians will go to Heaven.

You rang???



Exodus 32:32-33
 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”  But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.
 

Daniel 12:1
 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.
 
 
 
Philippians 4:3
 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
 

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
 

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
 
 
Revelation 17:8
 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
 
 
 
Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
 
Revelation 21:27
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

232 posted on 03/13/2016 4:53:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums

If there were any, perhaps they were born in a different census area; and were of age, so they went there.

Once we get into the area NOT covered in Scripture; all KINDS of scenarios can be hypothesized.

Most, if not all, will be a waste of time.

But, Rome seems to like the method.

What can ya do?


233 posted on 03/13/2016 4:56:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
That angel sure as **** didn't tell me THIS!!!

Actually, the angel DID tell Joseph what to do and that was to take Mary *AS HIS WIFE*.

That comes with certain responsibilities and privileges.

So he did and knew her not until AFTER she gave birth.

Honestly, I don't know how much clearer it can be stated short of saying, *After Jesus was born, they had sex* and even then they'd argue it.

234 posted on 03/13/2016 4:57:30 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: MHGinTN

It’s ludicrous to presume that Jesus only had four male cousins with those names, and that nobody else had cousins with those names.

To make it say, aren’t His cousins here, James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon is no proof of anything.

Probably everyone had cousins with those names.


235 posted on 03/13/2016 5:01:11 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Elsie; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; boatbums; caww; CynicalBear; daniel1212; dragonblustar; Dutchboy88; ...

FOTFLOL!!!!!


236 posted on 03/13/2016 5:02:36 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: rwa265

I appreciate that.

However, while it has been used as a justification for the belief, it still doesn’t really answer the question of the significance of the necessity of her remaining a virgin.

It’s not like sex with her legal husband would defile her. She would not have sinned.

Abstaining from sex while married is not a virtue as there is nothing wrong with sex between a husband and wife. It’s a right and proper thing for married couples to do.

Matter of fact, in a marriage is it not withholding sex from the other spouse grounds for annulment by the Catholic church?


237 posted on 03/13/2016 5:09:48 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: rwa265

Why did you stop short so as to leave people with the wrong opinion? At any rate, here’s the remainder of the commentary from your link:

“Others understand it of the Scriptures, the word of God, which as it is a sealed book to men learned and unlearned, so a gate shut up; it cannot be opened by a mere natural man, or be understood by the light of nature; none can open it but the Lion of the tribe of Judah; who gives the spiritual knowledge of it to whom he pleases, the perfect knowledge of which is reserved to a future state; and there are some things in it which will be always shut, and ever secrets; as the modus of the subsistence of the three Persons in the Godhead; the generation of the Son, the procession of the Spirit, and the union of the two natures in Christ; see Isaiah 29:11, others think that the gate of heaven, or the way to eternal glory and happiness, is meant; which was shut by the sin of man, and could never be opened again by any mere man; but Christ by his blood has opened the way into it; and has entered into it, not as a private, but public person, representing all his people; and none but those that belong to him, that are members of him, shall enter there; as none but Christ personal, so none but Christ mystical: but I am rather of opinion, since this whole fabric, as we have seen, is an emblem of the church of Christ on earth in the latter day, the way into that is designed here; and its being shut signifies, that, as the church is a garden enclosed, a spring shut up, and is only for the use of Christ, and should be a chaste virgin to him, he should have all her heart, affection, and faith; so it should not be pervious unto others; no natural or unregenerate man should enter into it; and when the Lord shall have taken up his residence in the church in the latter day, in a more spiritual and glorious manner than ever, there shall no more come into her the uncircumcised and the unclean, Isaiah 52:1, and especially in the New Jerusalem state nothing shall enter that defiles, or makes an abomination, or a lie, Revelation 21:27 none but those that are Christ’s, that are true members of his, and one with him; and this sense agrees with what follows in this chapter, and receives light and confirmation thereby; in which the Lord complains of the Israel and church of God in these its present declining times, that unregenerate persons were admitted into the sanctuary of the Lord, to communicate with the saints, and officiate there, Ezekiel 44:7 and commends such who are faithful ministers and members, who are established therein, Ezekiel 44:15.”


238 posted on 03/13/2016 5:17:37 AM PDT by SouthernClaire
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To: MHGinTN

“How utterly deceitful, institutional scale deception.”

I was blown away the first time I saw, “She shall...”

If I want to deceive many, I will have to start at the beginning. If only I can get them to fall for that, the rest will be pretty easy. That part, “She shall ...,” is the necessary bait, IMHO, and sets the stage for the rest.

Think of reading the rest of the Bible with that little nugget tucked away in your mind.


239 posted on 03/13/2016 5:25:55 AM PDT by SouthernClaire
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To: metmom

So then Joseph was a perpetual virgin too?


240 posted on 03/13/2016 5:45:12 AM PDT by Old Yeller (Calling Obama a POS is a major insult to S.)
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