Posted on 04/15/2016 4:54:19 AM PDT by Legatus
Something is happening and looks to be happening quickly.
bump to read later
I’ve wondered if more individual bishops couldn’t supply faculties to sspx priests within their dioceses al la Campos.
>> I’ve wondered if more individual bishops couldn’t supply faculties to sspx priests within their dioceses al la Campos. <<
Yes, it’s called the FSSP. SSPX consists of those Lefebvrites who rejected such accomodation.
OK, I understand the point you are trying to make, but as one who is well familiar with people on both sides, your comment doesn’t address the actual situation which exists on the ground. Many Catholics have no access to the FSSP, and my post was addressing those Bishops who would want to formalize a relationship.
bump
Well, the FSSP is doing more than merely providing priests where demand is high and supply is present. They are also training those who are already priests of various dioceses or other religious orders. But my point wasn’t that FSSP priests and others trained by them were so plentiful as to render no further need of Latin-mass priests necessary, but that it’s not as simple as merely accommodating SSPX: SSPX wouldn’t accept mere accommodations without additional demands being met. However, if there are further developments where SSPX would now accept such accommodations, great.
I agree, further accommodations would be great and resolve a difficult/confusing situation. Until then, there are certain places the SSPX can go that the FSSP cannot.
Also one of the issues is that the FSSP still have no bishop. If appointed one, this would hopefully ease some of the trepidation the SSPX have.
Mark my words: if the SSPX is regularized, it will become just another indult like the FSSP or ICKSP...just another place to go to the TLM.
I think some in the SSPX are totally fine with that. I think others think they will be able to change Rome on the most important issues: doctrinal issues (i.e. Vatican II).
No, Rome will change them...and that is exactly why Francis is trying to lure them in.
“Mark my words: if the SSPX is regularized, it will become just another indult like the FSSP or ICKSP...just another place to go to the TLM.”
Oh, no! The horror of it all! You mean they’ll. . . they’ll. . . become. . . (gasp). . . obedient Catholics!
Right now all the info I can gather is that the regularisation will be declared by the pope with no strings attached... which I think is suicidal for the post-conciliar Church... and Divine intervention for the western Church as a whole.
I believe in God’s Providence, they will change Rome... well otherwise we’re screwed.
Yeah... I was trying to express that the SSPX weren’t necessary unreasonable in their refusal to be accommodated, because I remember thinking that one or more of their “demands” (I hate that that makes them sound like terrorists or union negotiators) were quite reasonable. I think that’s one of them: without an ordinary (a bishop is the ordinary of a particular diocese), FSSP remain largely at the will of outsiders to their organization.
I believe in God’s Providence. That’s why I know that the SSPX isn’t necessarily the only way God can fix things.
Keep in mind, we may also very well be in the end times.
They are Catholic. They will become Modernists.
They do have their own bishops, and as the letter states, they are starting from a different point then the rest of the Church.
I must disagree with your characterization of the FSSP. While I only go to one FSSP parish- I can tell you they are heroic in defense of the Faith. If the Bishop (who tolerates them, but is in now way conservative or a fan of the FSSP) has told them to do something which would be detrimental to the faith of the people in their charge they have ignored him and have continued to care for the flock.
Frankly, I firmly believe that if the Bishop did order them to push a line contrary to the faith they would refuse to the point of being kicked out of the diocese. These are brave men- no wilting flowers here!
Do they defend the Faith by preaching against Vatican II? No. They aren’t allowed to do so. This is what will happen to the SSPX too.
I’m not sure exactly what your opinion is of the SSPX, however based on your comment I would like to humbly offer this for your consideration.
I believed at one time that the SSPX while having good intentions was just a form of Protestantism in the other direction. They disobeyed the Pope and even though they had what they thought were good reasons, this disobedience put them outside the Church.
Then I met some of them through my work. When talking about the faith I was surprised that they did not spend most of their time ranting about the Pope or the evils of Vatican II. They were too busy living out their faith, raising children, enjoying being what they are- Catholic.
If the Pope or the excesses of Vatican II or modernism in the Church came up as a topic they had firm opinions which I almost always agreed with. (Note these are people in real life, not on the internet. I would never judge a group of people based on the small number who tend to rant on the internet). They didn’t bad-mouth or denigrate the Pope. If anything they expressed mostly sorrow that so many souls were and are being misled.
This being so much different than my initial ideal of the SSPX I attended a few masses at the local SSPX parish. I honestly figured that while the parishioners I met might be one way, surely the SSPX priest would be raving about how evil the Pope and certain Bishops are.
Again, I was surprised. Respect for the Pope while at the same time disagreeing with the confusing teaching coming out of Rome and educating the faithful. Affirmation of things the Pope got right. I was also surprised to find that some of parishioners at the SSPX also attend the FSSP parish. The situation is more fluid than most people realize.
I know that a few of the SSPX priests and at least one Bishop have wandered into sedevacantism, however the SSPX itself has been very diligent in weeding those persons out and preventing them from having any influence in the organization. They are VERY aggressive in protecting against this and maintaining a desire to regain a formal canonical jurisdiction with the Pope providing they don’t have to agree to things which they believe go against the Faith. Things which any honest theologian admits pose a problem to the continuity of the Faith from before Vatican 2 to after.
I agree they are disobedient, however, they are disobedient in a very particular, very strange way. A way not at all in common with Protestants at the time of the reformation, or even with modernists within the Catholic Church in our time.
I’ve read the reasons they give for this disobedience. I used to think that they were exaggerating the danger presented by modernism to the Church. Given all that has happened I now find myself in agreement with them about this danger and how widespread this is.
I just can’t condemn them, not with what I’ve seen in my lifetime with my own eyes. Not knowing them and how they live for the Catholic Faith despite struggles and hardship for the path they have taken. Rather they should be accepted back in without any demands for what are non-doctrinal issues. There is nothing to be gained by keeping them in canonical limbo.
So does this mean there should be demands made that they accept religious liberty and ecumenism (for example)?
They have discussed confusion coming into the Church after Vatican II. They preach against the errors. They preach the Faith. They preach against modernism. They preach against a false ecumenism. They preach against relativism. They speak about the confusion in the Church and how to counter it. They spoke out against the sacrilegious light show on Climate Change at St. Peter’s Basilica (and the word sacrilege was used).
I’m not sure if you are expecting some specific word formula from them, but from all that I’ve seen they are on the side of the Angels.
That’s actually good to hear. The only problem is no one who can remove the errors have done so. It seems they only get bigger and bigger.
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