Posted on 04/21/2016 4:33:42 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.(Matthew 24:23-27)
In December 1995, my wife and I travelled to Toronto Canada, to observe services at the Toronto Airport Vineyard fellowship, because we had heard reports of revival breaking out, attracting people from around the world. We stood in the cold, in a line which numbered hundreds of people eager to get into the service and willing to wait for hours in the freezing Canadian wind, till the doors opened.
We interviewed quite a few pastors, from Canada, America, Africa, Europe, and almost to a man they testified that they had quit preaching the Word, now that the “Spirit” had come! The Word “didn’t work” , for their services were “dead and religious”, and sermons would not touch this post modern generation.
I asked them “Do you believe what the Bible says about a ‘last days’ deception?”. Most of them did. But when I asked if they thought it possible that they were being deceived via the “Toronto Blessing”, almost all of them scoffed at the notion.
It turns out that they had long been conditioned to think in terms of spiritual elitism; that they were the “Joseph company” of believers, the “man child”, the final greatest generation of the church,(Remember, God saved his best for last), and that as Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians, they had more “revelation Knowledge” than the vast majority of “old fashioned, religious, conventional Christians. Normal Christians could be deceived but not the new generation!
So they traveled , looking to receive from the “new Anointing”. In the scripture above, notice Jesus warned that they would be saying “Here is Christ”, not “Here is Jesus”. What does ‘Christ ‘ mean? Christ means “anointed one”. A “New Anointing” is a new Christ, or an anti-Christ.
What was it that they waited out in the freezing cold to enter into? They wanted to “Soak” in the presence of the LORD, to be “Slain in the Spirit” and to drink in the “new Wine” until they were “Drunk in the Spirit” of the LORD. Many of them had initial feelings of resistance to entering into ‘the river’, but they had been encouraged to keep on receiving ‘impartation prayer’, until the inner resistance was overcome.
The “Toronto Blessing”, as this mystical movement came to be called, did not come out of heaven by a “Rushing mighty Wind” but is rather the logical outworking of the steady influence of decades of false prophecy, heretical doctrine (The Manifested Sons of God/Latter Rain), anti-rational bias (“God is offending the mind to reach the heart”), and the desire for ‘experienced based” Christianity.
Charismatics had been conditioned by these influences and their false Shepherds to expect a revival of pure power and unmediated experiences in the “Presence of the Lord”. They had been taught that doctrine is divisibve, and those concerned about doctrine are “religious” and furthermore they had been taught that “The man with an experience is ever at the mercy of the man with a teaching”.
The linkage of influence is roughly as follows-
The false Prophet William Branham- Oral Roberts Kenneth Hagin and Copeland and the WORD of Faith movement- Mystical Spiritual warfare- The Kansas City Prophets and the other false prophets- Rodney Howard Browne’s mystical “laughing revival”- John Wimber’s “Power Evangelism” and the Vineyard movement which came out of it.
That is from where the Toronto Blessing, and the Pensacola movement which came out of it, descended .
Rodney Howard Brown is a South African evangelist who came from the Word of Faith Movement. He began to have meetings in America in which the preaching of the Word of God had to be halted due to outbursts of uncontrollable laughter, as ‘the spirit’ descended upon the people.He reports that at one service, He was preaching on Hell, but had to stop because the congregation was laughing so uproariously!
Howard Browne was ministering what he called “New Wine”. People were becoming drunk, spiritually. They couldn’t walk, they couldn’t pray or sit or listen, they staggered about and said ridiculous things as the rest of the congregation rejoiced and praised God for this ‘spirit’. Howard Browne called his meetings “Joel’s place” and himself “the Holy Ghost Bartender” and spoke as if the congregation were in a nightclub getting intoxicated, only they insisted that it was the new wine.
Howard Browne affected the Vineyard movement, they wanted that “Anointing” that he seemed to have, and sought it. When “it” hit the church in Toronto Canada in 1994, “It” brought those who had succumbed to “it” or had received the “Impartation of it” through the laying on of hands , into full blown mysticism, reminiscent of the Kundalini fits imparted by Hindu gurus.
At Toronto we saw people do things which would be physically impossible, as they came under the power of this ‘spirit’ which they called Revival. Stacy Campbell, one of the leaders of the movement shook so hard that her long hair would crack like a whip, all the while she breathlessly prophesied! An older lady , perhaps in her 70’s was involuntarily laying supine on her back in the sanctuary, doing crunches for more than forty five minutes! It seemed like bedlam in that sanctuary.
The defining manifestation was Spiritual drunkenness. Through distortion of scripture like the book of Acts chapter 2,
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;(Acts 2:12-17)
Notice it was the mockers who accused the apostles of drunkenness on the day of Pentecost, and the apostle Peter was quick to deny any drunkenness whatsoever.
Modern mockers have entered into our sanctuaries and have enticed a self absorbed generation, which in many cases had barely escaped the ravages of drug and alcohol abuse, into thinking that the Spirit of God wants to bring you into some sort of Holy intoxication and abandonment.
The scriptures of course say the opposite, for Peter himself warned us “Be sober and vigilant….” (I Peter 5) and all of the apostles call for the church to be clear thinking and alert. But Rodney Howard Browne, John Arnott, John Scotland, and John Wimber, among others, initiated a false revival of “spiritual drunkenness” and have brought dissolution and reproach upon a good many of God’s dear people.
But there is another way to interpret Spiritual drunkenness. Spiritual drunkenness is from God , alright, but not a blessing, it is a judgment upon an unbelieving and faithless people;
Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.( Isaiah 29:9-14)
Read this and consider its implications! I weep and tremble because I have seen the outworking of this prophecy on the Charismatic movement. God isn’t speaking to the Seers. The leaders don’t understand the Bible , what little they did understand was wiped out in the “Signs and wonders” revival. The people think they are nearer to God than any other “Dead” Christians, but they couldn’t get any farther away. The wisdom perished in the bouts of drunkenness and irreverence.
I praise God for your testimony brother, thats for sharing because I know it will be of help to any who have ears to hear. I thought of the song, “Through many danger toils and snares, I have already come, his Grace has brought me safe thus fr, and grace will lead me home”. I also happen to believe what you are saying about the need to repent of these things, in fact I keep urging it of those who participated in all of this. Repentance is one of the reasons I am led to revisit this subject, people need a “Re-think” and to change their mind and turn around...towards God. Thanks so much my brother and friend...
Lest we forget, the Bible teaches that no man should be speaking in tongues in a group/gathering unless there is someone there to interpret for the hearers. THE FATHER is not the author of confusion ...
The tongues were the multiple foreign languages that the disciples spoke and those foreign languages were heard and understood by the many different countrymen in the crowd as per Acts. Acts was written by Luke who was present. You are referring to Corinthians which was written by Paul who was Saul until he went on the road to Damascus.
He that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not unto men but unto God, no man understands him, in the Spirit he speaks mysteries 1 Cor 14:1-4
Not necessarily. Speaking in "unknown" language was referred to in 1 Corinthians 14, the language known nor even to the speaker. At the time of the First Baptist Church of Corinth, there were also pagan mystery cults engaging in glossolalia, which novices in Christianity thought would achieve a nice embellishment to personal or public prayer.
How Paul nicely but inoffensively handled the public manifestation was by insisting that another interpreter tell what the language meant. Of course, there could be none for a tongue not known by humans, and the correct translation/interpretation of a language not known by most of the constitutents would have to be verified by the speaker and any hearer for which the translation was made, by comparing a message or prophetic utterance with the known context of the paradoses (oral precepts taught by the apostles), or their inspired writings, or the canon of the Tanach, which we call the "Old Testament."
Of course, making mumbojumbo not even known by the speaker might seem to keep his/her mind off of other things, keeping a wakeful ingenuity from imagining futile stray or evil thoughts, but that kind of occurrence would be uninterpretable, and hence of no profitable or practical use whatsoever. It just keeps the mind in neutral gear.
Again, the chief key to understanding this is to explain to yourself and others the meaning of verse 1 of 1 Corinthians 13. Is what is being sid just selfish, uninterpretable, time-wasting, and without meaning (like a whistle, or banging garbage can lid, or oral flatulence); or is it a true expression, not of affection, but of agape love, a communication demonstrating a sovereign preference above one over self and others. Did God speak in the kind of "tongues" invented at Azusa Street a hundred years ago, and cause it to be written down for our eternal benefit? Of course, NO! And no one today knows exactly what that manifestation sounded like back in the first century, so we cannot even imitate it. Take it for what it is worth.
If not understood (and who does?), then leave it alone. Don't twist the dog's ears, eh?
Paul said it would die out of its own accord, as people became more interested in mature Bible instruction than childishness.
The significance of the Pentecostal utterances were, as you pointed out, heard by people knowing languages foreign to Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek. But there were up to 120 pre-Pentecostal believers doing the speaking. Whether they knew what they were saying is up for grabs, not affirmed or denied in the passage of Acts 2.
We need to give the Holy Spirit all the latitude in the writings He allows for Himself to permit outlier "ifs"; but restraints He puts on the narrative through grammar and context must be obeyed, for the Spirit is very precise in what He says and what He does not say.
The Bible is comprehensive, but not exhaustive, if you get the drift.
No it does not. My wife is Catholic and the Catholic bible says it was 9 in the morning. I agree with you.
Paul made four journeys. Saul/Paul was well educated and was fairly high in the Jewish hierarchy before he became Paul. I am uncomfortable with your views and they are not as I believe.
The Lord is very clear to me as at the end of Revelations is:
A Warning
I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plaques which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
That is true. The last we know of (an some think there may have been one to Iberia, that is not recorded) was to Rome, from which some of his letters were written.
Saul/Paul was well educated . . .
That is also quite true. He was in training under Rabbi ben Gamaliel, supposedly to be a teacher himself of the Sanhedrin. Furthermore, after his salvation he was trained for about three years in the Gospel in the Arabian desert by the Risen Jesus Himself, Paul went back to his hometown Tarsus, a cosmopolitan Greco-Roman university town, and it is supposed that he there got a college education in Gentile philosophy and ways so as to be prepared to be a missionary to the uncircumcised Gentiles. That in itself took about eleven years.
. . . and was fairly high in the Jewish hierarchy before he became Paul.
Correct. That suggests that he might well have been married and had a child, because that was one of the prerequisites for the Sanhedrin, Of course, the married part is conjecture, but not that he was a disciple of ben Gamaliel, a Pharisee of the Pharisees.
I am uncomfortable with your views and they are not as I believe.
That is a really good and courteous way to write of your discomfort. Perhaps you could enumerate at least one or two things of what I wrote you, and see if I can explain the point I made so as to at least give us a basis for further discussion.
I believe, as you seem to, that God's progressive unveiling of His Biblical Truths came to an end upon the death of the last of the Disciple-Apostles who had been hand-picked and personally trained by Jesus of Nazareth. I do not believe in any prophecies of (for instance) the Romanists, nor of the late-coming non-Catholic "Pentecostal"/"charismatic" evangelists who claim to be prophesying of things not already treated by the Holy Scriptures.
I certainly do believe that one type of "prophesying" is simple preaching the known truths of the Bible, and of how those truths can be applied to life circumstances, including finding and training more disciples.
I am not quite clear if there is something I should infer as to this warning. Would you take the time to illuminate me on this?
And thank you for your polite responses.
Tongue is singular and therefore gibberish. There is no plural for gibberish.
fallacy...Paul is the author of I Corinthians 14, He would never say “He that speaks in gibberish speaks not unto men, but unto God” don’t let your prejudices causes you to mock and distort the Bible. Paul also said,”I thank God I speak in tongues more than you all...” We may disagree what that means but you can’t just relegate it ti gibberish...this is scripture.
I guess you think you know more then John MacArthur? 1 Corinthians 14.2 in the New American Standard Bible 2006 written by John MacArthur he clearly explains below in the Study Bible that the distinction between the singular tongue and the plural tongues is foundational to the proper interpretation of this chapter. Paul seems to use the singular to distinguish the counterfeit gift of pagan gibberish and the plural to indicate the genuine gift of a foreign language. It was perhaps in recognition of that, that the King James Version translators added consistently the word “unknown” before every singular form.
you have to be sincere when you approach scripture, you can’t come with a bias or you will concoct fanciful ways of explaining away difficult passages, it would be better to just admit you don’t understand...Paul is not speaking of a counterfeit tongue of pagan “gibberish” in 1 Cor 14:1-4
Go tell John MacArthur he is wrong.
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