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Posted on 05/12/2016 2:05:27 PM PDT by NYer
First, today I saw a piece at Breitbart that Pope Francis popularity has dropped. HERE
That said, I have received links to various articles saying that the Pope has considered establishing a commission to study the issue of the ordination of woman as deaconesses…. (aka deaconettes -it’s easier to pronounce).
Studying is one thing and doing is another.
That said, I saw something telling in the Fishwrap account (aka National Schismatic Reporter).
The pope responded that he had spoken about the matter once some years ago with a “good, wise professor” who had studied the use of female deacons in the early centuries of the church. Francis said it remained unclear to him what role such deacons had.
“What were these female deacons?” the pontiff recalled asking the professor. “Did they have ordination or no?”
“It was a bit obscure,” said Francis. “What was the role of the deaconess in that time?”
“Constituting an official commission that might study the question?” the pontiff asked aloud. “I believe yes. It would do good for the church to clarify this point. I am in agreement. I will speak to do something like this.”
“I accept,” the pope said later. “It seems useful to me to have a commission that would clarify this well.”
First, I haven’t seen news that a commission exists. Maybe I missed something.
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Next, this also means that the Pope has not been talking to the people who are in favor of the ordination of women! He hasn’t been paying attention to the advocates of deaconettes. Instead, he has been talking to those who find the question obscure and muddy.
Of course that is what this issue is: obscure and muddy. It is not at all likely that greater clarity will be gained from such a commission. Were there more out there to know… in serious, scholarly sources, that is… someone would have written it. Also, those with whom Francis speaks would have been able to point to it. Such a commission won’t consider half-baked propaganda, after all.
Meanwhile, the serious scholarship that exists says: they were not ordained in a sacramental sense, as deacons were and are. Also, not every idea that the Church tried was a good one: many were dropped – like deaconettes. Moreover, nothing about this will happen for quite a while, I suspect.
Read Deaconesses: An Historical Study by Aime G Martimort. UK HERE
I might write more on this later, but for now that’s enough. Right now this is much ado about nothing.
Catholic ping!
Why couldn’t he just say “Deaconess,” a word with a long tradition in Protestant use, as well as the literal translation in certain Old Testament passages, without being a snarky smart-mouth?
I believe what the Catechism teaches: that only men can receive Holy Orders, including the diaconate, while women are not the proper “matter” of the Sacrament. However, sometimes it’s hard to avoid thinking that misogyny flourishes behind the solid doctrine.
Might as well just say that you can’t help thinking that misogyny flourishes behind the philosophy of Jesus, since he didn’t see fit to invite a woman to the Last Supper.
I would imagine this is one area where Roman Catholics and straight-laced, fundamentalist Baptists agree: i.e., women have no place in ordained ministry.
1 Timothy 2:12 ESV I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
Seems pretty clear, doesn’t it? Our Catholics brethren have thought so for centuries.
Also, notice this verse:
1 Timothy 3:12 ESV Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
See that phrase “...the husband of one wife,...”? Only some nutty liberal would twist the plain, simple meaning of that phrase to mean that a woman can be a deacon (or even a priest for that matter).
The bottom line of all this is clear: women are not meant for ordained ministry.
No, not at all. My point was that Fr. Z felt compelled to add “Deaconettes,” an obvious put-down, when that is completely unnecessary in affirming the dogma of Holy Orders’ being reserved to men.
On the other hand, my daughter says that “Francis and the Deaconettes” is a great name for a jazz band.
So, like, whatever.
I don’t think this will really happen.
No doctrine will be changed.
A commission to study this is a very bad idea Francis. It would only encourage the radical feminists of the Church (i.e. some of those whacky nuns) to pursue this as a goal for human motives only, and certainly not for the spread of God’s kingdom on earth.
Exactly.
I think an honest and impartial study would not hurt. I also found this book on an examination of Deaconesses in the Orthodox churches:
Fr. Z needs to stop kidding himself. Francis made this statement to a gaggle of superiors of liberal nuns. Francis switches tunes according to his audiences.
Pope Francis with his future deaconettes.
It is. They could open for the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence at the next Folsom Street Fair.
I don’t think that’s what Sally had in mind. She’s a nice girl.
A hand picked commission will produce a vague document. In the spirit of a commissioning Church, some bishops will begin to commission deaconesses.
And no doctrine will be changed.
Exactly....or they’ll leave it up to individual synods to decide in the interest of “dealing with unique and particular circumstances”. And, of course, just like Communion for divorced Catholics, no doctrine will be changed.
There’s plenty of misogyny in the clergy. Some of it is deserved; some very needy women have a bad habit of pestering and pursuing priests. Many priests are inexperienced in dealing with manipulative women, so they cope by avoiding them.
Regardless, the theology behind ordination for men only is solid.
Agree that the snark is unnecessary and demeans his argument.
Yeah, just like the synods. We’ll just get a bunch of merciful loopholes.
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