Posted on 05/24/2016 6:49:46 AM PDT by Salvation
Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.
We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.
Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).
Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”
Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”
So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).
St Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as follows:
Genitori, Genitoque … Procedenti ab utroque … compar sit laudautio
(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)
The Athanasian Creed says the following regarding these processions:
The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone, neither made nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.
So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.
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One of my friends here, is from Greece. He helps me understand the Word better, because Greek is the language of his birth.
Not me!!!
Nice! that’s an awesome resource to have.
MormonISM is very similar in that hardly any doctrine comes from the Book of Mormon; but from OTHER sources: D&C's, Pearl of Great Price, sermons by Brigham Young...
Much like Catholic 'traditions'.
Yes it is, but I should have mentioned, he also speaks, reads and writes English, Hebrew and Arabic, so he can read the Word in the Old Testament and New Testament, in the original languages.
He said that the Word, written in Greek, uses words that are not used much anymore, in everyday conversation, but he knows what they mean. He said it's kind of like reading King James English.
The word translated as "it is finished," he said, taken entirely by itself, means that whatever job or task, that one had been assigned to accomplish, was accomplished. It's fun to hear what he has to say about the Greek language. 😇
Or an eternally DYING person.
And it’s not the dying that procures the remission of sins, it’s the DEATH, past tense.
Somehow Catholics have it in their minds that suffering somehow expiates their sins so that the dying part is what’s important, but wouldn’t it be just like Satan to focus on the dying and not on the death which gives us the forgiveness and the LIVING that we do after that?
Salvation is about LIFE, not about dying.
Details, details.
He didn’t really mean “finished” finished when He said “It is finished”. He really meant only partly finished, dontcha know?
In her own words she has never led anyone to Jesus...She has never spoken to any of those she cared for about Jesus...And yet she's a Saint...
I like that, I like it a lot. Thank you for posting it.
The Catholic Mass is a demonic insult to His finished Grace for us, as if the institution of catholiciism is required to continue a FINISHED Transaction.
And like the brass snake on the pole, anyone who believes in Jesus as The One Whom God sent for their salvation and accepts the Grace purchased at Calvary --Once for all, for all time, forward from Calvary and backward from Calvary-- they are the healed.
Who finished the transaction that only The Precious blood of Jesus could make? God with us, Jesus. Not some catholic or Mormon priest, JESUS.
Still won’t address your #160 post I see.
The power is "shared" equally and their wills are in full accord. When Jesus says that the Father "sent" Him or that He will "send the Spirit", it is not to be understood as a command, but rather as a cooperation.
They cannot all be omniscient if one of them knows something the other does not know, such as when the end of the world will be.
Now we are getting in to the issue of the hypostasis, which I was really trying to avoid. but here goes: Just as God is three persons with one nature, Jesus is one person with two natures. He has a fully divine nature and at the same time a fully human nature.
Make sure you understand I am not saying that He is demigod, half god half man. He is both fully human and fully divine at the exact same time. When He says that only the Father knows the exact time, it is His human nature that says this.
I fully expect the prots to make some snide comments, but I will try to clarify for you if need be.
Now is this after God came into existence as you noted in your post #160?
Or was it when the second being instantly became sentient as per your #160 post?
I did explain it, I just can’t understand it for you.
A precise and well worded explanation of the ‘hypostasis’. And it does not conflict with the FACT that there wwere times and events which God as Jesus had limited from His nature while in our limits well. Only God knows why He did this, but I suspect it has something to do with shutting out the Angels from discerning the future as God has it planned.
Are you willing to admit what you said in your post #160 was in error?
This has been Christian thought for almost 1600 years, to deny this would make me a heretic. It was settled at the Council of Nicea when the Arian heresy was put down. Get over yourself.
To be clear....you’re saying the Council of Nicea said God came into existence??
Actually, unless you’re willing to say the Eastern Church is not Christian, your assertion of Christian belief for 1600 years is incorrect. See post #354 ...
Elsie:
Like I said, we are not in 100% agreement on this. You see the Creeds from a Wesleyan framework, I a Catholic. No need to get upset about it.
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