Posted on 05/24/2016 6:49:46 AM PDT by Salvation
Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.
We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.
Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).
Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”
Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”
So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).
St Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as follows:
Genitori, Genitoque … Procedenti ab utroque … compar sit laudautio
(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)
The Athanasian Creed says the following regarding these processions:
The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone, neither made nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.
So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.
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I have reposted the entire set of questions for you. You will notice that I used the Greek terms: Homoousios, Homoiousios, and Heteroousios. These are common Greek terms referring to: same substance, similar substance, and different substance. you have frequently cited your vast knowledge of the Greek language. I would hope that in your studies your instructors have informed you that you can't legitimately separate the words "same", "similar", and "different" from the compound words they form when combined with the word "substance to get the full meaning of those compound words.
So in light of this vast knowledge feel free to actually answer the question rather than dodge (again)
I have been more than tolerant and patient with your attacks eagleone , let's hear / see some answers from you.
1) Is Jesus the same substance (Homoousios) as God the Father, a similar substance (Homoiousios), or a different substance (Heteroousios)?
a) If He is a similar substances what are the differences how does this affect their unity?
b) If he is a completely different substance, whee did the different substance come from and how does this affect their unity?
Is the Holy Spirit the same, similar or different substance as the Father and the Son?
If there are differences please describe them in detail and describe how this would affect their unity.
God is infinite (taking up all space), and eternal (existing from all time). How is there room for the Universe to exist if God is truly infinite?
Speaking of the Universe; What did God create the Universe out of? Did He build it out of some part of Himself?
If he did build it out of some part of Himself does that make Him less infinite since He used part of Himself.
If He built it out of nothing, then where did the nothing come from? If the nothing already existed does that mean that God is not truly infinite?
I will be waiting for you to illuminate all of us.
Now you have stated that the verses you slung (Out of context) answer the rest of the questions. I guess you are just going to either expand on your answers, or describe in much more detail how that answers the questions.
I’m sorry, you keep posting, and all I keep hearing is Deedle ee dee dee dee dee deet
Your post #160 would be roundly denounced as false.
You stated the Council of Nicea argued for the position you advanced that "God came into existence."
I've asked you to supply any evidence for this. I guess you don't have it.
This would make two errors you've made.
I’ve learned with catholics you have to understand their definition of a word. I’ll again ask you to define what your understanding of substance is.
There there, it’s okay if you I know it is very difficult for some people such as yourself to face the truth. You have yourself a good evening now.
I've seen your understanding of the Greek and I find it lacking. Reference your thread on the perpetual virginity of Mary as an example.
Trust me....I always have a good evening.
Got the link to the Council of Nicea's findings to support your statement God came into existence yet?
Those pigeons must be getting the best of you again.
As you do not respect the Word what would be the point? The verses I quoted did answer your questions. You did not like them. I cannot help that.
I've notice some catholics seem to have a very low opinion of God's Word when it is more than capable of answering your questions and indeed has answered them regarding the creation.
Meanwhile we're still left with your #160 post where you claim "God came into existence."
Ok! we can end it here.
No one is playing your silly little game...You can’t even define ‘substance’...
Perhaps you missed the following in an earlier post, after the passage from John 1: No matter how you ask the questions or the varied answers given to you, you will not find satisfaction until you receive Him and are born from above. There is no philosophical syllogism which will work for the limitless ...
Scripture tells us that we are made in the image of God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jesus is known as the word made flesh.
In the beginning, God said, “let Us make man in Our image.
God is one in three distinct entities Just as I am one in three distinct entities...Body, Mind (soul), Spirit.
Do I fully understand the great triune mystery, no. I do feel my creator in my own triune existence.
I don't remember seeing anyone ask your opinion......
Best reply in the whole thread!
I think about the Scripture verses like:
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools (Romans 1:22)
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. (I Cor. 3:19)
So many people are taken with their own intellectual and philosophical prowess (or what they think they have) and look down on others who prefer to look towards the simplicity that is in Christ. Little do they know that it is childlike faith that pleases God because we trust and have faith in HIM and not our own intellect. I don't have to understand it all to believe what He said is the truth. The fear/reverence of God is the beginning of knowledge.
John Chapter 1...”In the beginning was the WORD(logos) and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God” Go down further in the chapter and you read “And the WORD was made flesh and dwelt amongst us...” If the WORD was God and the Word was made flesh, then Christ is God in flesh! Logical enough for you? Jesus is God’s thumbprint pressed into matter!
John 1: 9The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.…
Hence we know that the world was “made thru him”...that is Jesus...the light that has come into the world.
I encourage you to read thru the ist Chapter of the gospel of John....it should answer your questions about who Jesus is!
I am pretty sure that the guy that does not seem to understand compound words shouldn’t criticize anyone’s understanding of Greek.
Then you will have no trouble putting them in context.
Dude, seriously banjos and now there is two of them.
Actually I did see and was polite enough to ignore it. John 1:1 is a wonderful verse, (That is why the Catholic Church included it in the first place), but it does not answer any of the questions. I realize that you guys love to sling the verses. But ask your self where does it say that God the Father, Jesus the Son, or the Holy Spirit are Homoousios, Homoiousios, or Heteroousios. The same challenge is to ealgeone. show me any of those words in the Greek translation of the verses you slung.
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