Posted on 08/08/2016 2:14:55 PM PDT by NYer
U.S. Olympian Katie Ledecky is the world record holder in the 400-, 800- and 1500-meter freestyles, and the American record holder in the 500-, 1000- and 1650-yard freestyles.
In the Olympics in Rio de Janeiro, she will compete in the 200-, 400-, and 800-meter freestyle. She has won Gold medals in the 2012 London Olympics and again in the 2016 Rio Olympics.
But before every race Ledecky, a faithful Catholic, offers a Hail Mary. “I do say a prayer – or two – before any race. The Hail Mary is a beautiful prayer and I find that it calms me.” she said.
In an interview with the Catholic Standard Ledecky said “My Catholic faith is very important to me. It always has been and it always will be. It is part of who I am and I feel comfortable practicing my faith. It helps me put things in perspective.”
You've explained this quite well.
No ruler whacks for you.
Now; tackle the 'call no man Father' thingy.
If you’re a believer in Christ you’re already a saint! We don’t need the ccc to explain that. It’s in the Word already!
“What a perfect way to destroy a wonderful thread........
Dude, the discussion thread is about the girl praying to Mary.
Wonderful, hard-working, positive young lady, who was taught a falsehood.
If our loved ones have passed away and they died without faith in Christ, there is nothing further that can be done for them.
23Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him. Hebrews 9:23-28 NASB
Notice, this passage also rules out the Mass and the continual resacrifice of Christ.
DUDE, you not only proved my point but reinforced my thoughts on religion..........Evidently your church has its Puritans also...........
I don’t like religion. It gets no one to heaven.
No puritans in my church. Just sinful, flawed people in need of grace and a Savior.
And yet you're the ultimate judge of Katie Ledecky of how/who she worships..........Got it!
Instead of being a holier than thou hypocrite, you should be celebrating the fact that she at least embraces her religion and gives thanks to those who guided her.........
At least it wasn't one of your pedophile priests or televangelist begging for money while screwing a prostitute in a motel room.
‘And yet you’re the ultimate judge of Katie Ledecky of how/who she worships..........Got it!”
I don’t judge her. She’s just doing what she was taught. God’s Word judges the practice as wrong.
“At least it wasn’t one of your pedophile priests or televangelist begging for money while screwing a prostitute in a motel room.
My church has neither.
Yes, some of it consists of lists: the first and most important element of Apostolic Tradition is the canon of Scripture, both OT and NT. And that ---the canon --- is, precisely, a Table of Contents. An official list. So that part you got exactly right.
(Nice to be right, hey?)
The rest of the Apostolic Tradition,which we can derive from the practices of the early Church, would be:
There's more; it's not all contained in lists.
Now let me try a home-based analogy which may lllustrate why "Apostolic Tradition" cannot be a matter of "official lists." Say your family has been getting together for a big Thanksgiving feast every year since anone can remember: you personally have remembrance dating from approx. 1988, but it started way before that.
You could make a list of the particulars of this observance, perhaps rather scatterd and fragmentary at first:
The giving the the Five Flavor Pound Cake recipe to Patricia can be documented (e-mail, 2004) and Daddy Robert's passing (obit 1994) and Mama Flugehorn's passing can be documented (obit, 2015), and going through her personal papers, we've come across a lot of letters as well as piles of photographs dating back to the end of WWII. All of this is in boxes and manila envelopes, as yet un-sorted and un-organized.
But other than that, very little of this is strictly "documented". It might get written down IF James finishes doing the family tree that Mama was working on, AND writes up some of the archives. We don't want to lose the story of how Robert's father, a sheriff's deputy, died by drowning in the river while trying to re-capture an escaped convict; we also don't want to lose the story of the death of poor Janna, or the story of how Daddy Robert apparently had some kind of luminous vision before he died. He couldn't speak, but if you'd seen his face...
Meanwhile, we know it because we lived it, and are still living it.
In the same way, that's how we got, for instance, the "canon" --- not because somebody decreed it, but because these were, in practice, the texts the churches were already and actually using liturgically. We do things because this is the way, in practice, things have been done in the Churches. A lot could change incrementally, yet everything is the same. Thanksgiving does not morph into Eid Al-Fitr, it doesn't turn into drunken casino outing, it's always bound together by the ONGOING sense of tradition and propriety of an ONGOING loving Christian family.
Once you "get" that, , the particulars can all be put together, scouted out by the scholars, properly comprehended. Then you may make all the lists you please.
If you don't "get" that, NOTHING can be properly comprehended, no matter how many lists you have.
You all do......and denial isn't a river in Africa.
The traditions referred to in Scripture are the ones I am referring to. Obviously, Paul knew exactly what they were when he referred to them. What are they?
The rest of your post has some accurate items, but some that are false.
Before going afield, please post the traditions Paul referred to and show how they are traced back to him so we know it is the same list.
Nope. No priests. No televangelists. Not a single one in the past or currently.
Meanwhile, at The Tides Church -
http://babylonbee.com/news/worship-leader-caught-infinite-loop-bridge-chorus/
Thank you, most gracious Elsie.
"Now; tackle the 'call no man Father' thingy."
We would do best by looking at that in context in Matthew 23: 8-10. Jesus says "Do not be called Rabbi (lit: "teacher"), You have but one teacher, and you are all brothers. Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven. Do not be called ‘Master’; you have but one master, the Messiah.
Note that Christians have never taken this literally for any of these terms: neither for "father" nor for "teacher" or "master." Christians have called tens of thousands, maybe millions of people "teacher" using synonyms and words of all languages (professeur, tutor, magister, instructor, dáskalos, didaskalos); and similarly, we have no objection to speaking of a ship's master, a headmaster, a chess master, a master storyteller, chef, or brick-layer, and likewise, any creator of a masterpiece...
Apparently the words are not to be taken literally, since if we are not to call "anyone on earth" our father, that would include the man who sired us, who contributed half of our DNA. (He is "someone" "on earth"!)
But to the contrary, many dozens of times in the New Testament men upon this earth are rightly called "father," and there is no offense given to anyone in heaven or on earth.
This is what God's Word says:
Matthew 1:2
Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
Matthew 15:4
For God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.’
Mark 15:21
They compelled a passer-by, who was coming in from the country, to carry his cross; it was Simon of Cyrene, the father of Alexander and Rufus.
Luke 1:67
Then his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke this prophecy:
Luke 2:33
And the child’s father and mother were amazed at what was being said about him.
Luke 8:51
When he came to the house, he did not allow anyone to enter with him, except Peter, John, and James, and the child’s father and mother.
Luke 15:20
So he set off and went to his father. But while he was still far off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion; he ran and put his arms around him and kissed him.
Acts 7:2
And Stephen replied: “Brothers and father, listen to me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran,
Acts 7:4
Then he left the country of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. After his father died, God had him move from there to this country in which you are now living.
Acts 7:8
Then he gave him the covenant of circumcision. And so Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him on the eighth day; and Isaac became the father of Jacob, and Jacob, father of the twelve patriarchs Acts 22:1
“Brothers and father, listen to the defense that I now make before you.”
Romans 4:16
For this reason it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants, not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (for he is the father of all of us,as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”)—
1 Corinthians 4:15
Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
Ephesians 6:4
And, father, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Philemon 1:10
I am appealing to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become during my imprisonment.
1 John 2:13
I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning.
God's people, historically, from the beginning until now, have always understood this to be proper.
The Church interprets Christ's words (no "father" "teacher" "master") to mean that God is our ULTIMATE Father, Teacher, Master. These words, applied to earthly persons, are derivative, limited and contingent; applied to God, they are foundational, limitless and absolute.
This is truly a misplaced demand. Do you really think St. Paul had an official, comprehensive list of every single thing the Lord said, did and taught, and what the Apostles taught in turn??
St. John alluded to the impossibility of this:
But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. John 21:25
2. Until you provide the list of referenced traditions, we won't know how many there were. Certainly, not everything Jesus said or did.
the prayers to/worship of Mary
the reliance upon Mary for salvation
purgatory
the priesthood
the mass
indulgences
indulgences to get out of purgatory
prayers to the departed
"veneration" of idols
the offices of pope, archbiship, etc
the ongoing revelations regarding Mary and the whole Mariology concept
mortal or venial sins
penance for forgiveness of sins
....the list can go on but you get the idea.
So yes, Christianity rejects Roman Catholicism's false practices.
This is truly a misplaced demand. Do you really think St. Paul had an official, comprehensive list of every single thing the Lord said, did and taught, and what the Apostles taught in turn??
Catholics sure seem to think so!
It amazes me that a concept so vital to roman catholicism such as the "veneration" of Mary is no where found in the NT.
Indeed, and as such it is not merely talking to someone, and is always and only to God in Scripture. You simply have no justification for presuming to do what the Holy Spirit never did, especially when prayer is such a foundational common practice. To presume the Holy Spirit would not even provide one example of any believer praying to someone else in Heaven but God, while recording pagans making such supplication, is to charge the Spirit with carelessness and neglect.
I am sorry that you do not understand or accept the words of the Bible and the teachings of His Church about the benefit of the intercession of the saints to deliver our prayers to God.
What insolence!!! Nowhere do we see believers in glory hearing prayer addressed to them and making intercession for those on earth, much less anyone but pagans ever making supplication to anyone else in Heave but God! Yet you insolently reiterate your refuted claims again and again, which testifies to what cultic devotion will do.
. But then, most non Catholics do not accept the words of Jesus about the need to consume HIS BODY and HIS BLOOD for eternal life.
Which is simply an interpretation of the manner of language that is wholly without support and contradicted by Scripture. NOWHERE is spiritual life ever obtained by literally physically eating anything, as instead it is obtained when one believes the gospel message with effectual faith. As John especially teaches. God through Acts and the rest of the NT and shown me where souls were born again by taking part in the Lord's supper, or where in the life of the church that it is taught that consuming the "real" body and blood of Christ is essential for eternal life. It is not even manifestly described except in one epistle, which teaches that the body of Christ they needed to recognize is the church.
Moreover, if consuming the "real" body and blood of Christ is essential for eternal life, then you contradict your own modern church, since it considers properly baptized devout Prots as born again brethren.
Repent or stand condemned!
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