Judging non-Catholics

OSV.com ^ | 08-17-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Iscool]

The promise of Christ keeps the true church from falling into error. “He who hears you hears me”

Luk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Jesus was speaking to the 70 disciples he sent out to proclaim his kingdom was near...

Those 70 Jewish disciples were NOT the Catholic church...They were forbidden to go to any Romans with their message...They were building a church void of anyone from or in Rome...You know that, right??? If you don't know that you are of the religion that heareth NOT Jesus...

[af_vet_1981]

It is indeed addressing servants, but the only place of suffering mentioned is with unbelievers, which is where the Lord elsewhere places those who are not ready.

And they are His servants, who say in their heart, "My Lord delays his coming." They begin to assail His other servants, and to eat and drink to excess (gluttony, drunkeness, etc.). These are works. This agrees with the Messiah's warnings in the book of Revelation. It is more important to heed the words of the Messiah, and avoid the stripes.

[metmom]

He’s also a scandal and stumbling block to those inside the Catholic church.

Maybe more so to them than outsiders.

[Iscool]

Logic. And Scripture. History.

Jesus scoffs at man's logic...To understand scripture you have to throw all of your logic into the trash heap...

[ealgeone]

A couple of observations on 1 Corinthians 11:20-34

Paul calls it the Lord's Supper...not the Mass nor Eucharist (v20).

Paul received this from the Lord (v23).

It is a remembrance of Him. Christ noted this after both the bread and wine.

In doing this we proclaim the Lord's death until He arrives (v26). Hence, this is the purpose of the Lord's supper. To proclaim His death until He comes again.

There is nothing in this passage that supports the roman catholic version of the Mass.

There is nothing supporting the roman catholic view that salvation occurs during this meal. If so, the implication would be salvation occurs over and over and over again every time the Lord's Supper occurs.

It is a remembrance of what Christ has done for us on the cross as noted by Paul.

The Greek word for remembrance is ἀνάμνησις. It means the following:

Cognate: 364 anámnēsis (from 363 /anamimnḗskō, "bring to mind") – properly, deliberate recollection, done to better appreciate the effects (intended results) of what happened; active, self-prompted recollection especially as a memorial (memorial sacrifice).

[Iscool]

This is the only record we have of any of Christ’s followers forsaking him for purely doctrinal reasons. If it had all been a misunderstanding, if they erred in taking a metaphor in a literal sense, why didn’t he call them back and straighten things out? Both the Jews, who were suspicious of him, and his disciples, who had accepted everything up to this point, would have remained with him had he said he was speaking only symbolically.

Because Jesus was trying to get rid of them...He knew they were hanging around just for a free meal...

Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

So Jesus started saying things he knew they wouldn't accept...

Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Joh 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

They didn't believe Jesus' message nor did they believe he was the Son of the Father...

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

They were convinced Jesus was lying, about everything...

Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. Joh 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

They understood what Jesus said and were grumbling among themselves saying to each other things like, 'this guy's a fruitcake...He a nut job' because they didn't believe a thing he said...

Jesus's super hearing was able to pick this up and yet, those disciples still did not leave even tho they didn't believe him...They were still looking for a free meal...So Jesus upped the rhetoric...

Joh 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

They still didn't go so Jesus put the final nail in the coffin...

Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Jesus said that if God didn't call them to the gathering, and you know who you are, you're wasting your time here, so just move along...

Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

You will notice none of them left when Jesus said to eat his flesh...That's just a fallacy put out by the Catholic religion...They left when Jesus told them to examine themselves to really know if God sent them there...He didn't and they knew it, so they finally left...

So their leaving had nothing to do with any misunderstanding...Jesus was telling them 'Spiritual' truths knowing they would reject all of them...He knew who believed and who didn't...

[daniel1212]

And they are His servants, who say in their heart, "My Lord delays his coming." They begin to assail His other servants, and to eat and drink to excess (gluttony, drunkeness, etc.).

And The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. (Luke 12:46) - which is Not Purgatory. Thanks for the confirmation.

[af_vet_1981]

They were building a church void of anyone from or in Rome...

There is one holy catholic apostolic Church from the days of the Jewish Apostles unto this day.

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world. For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me. Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses one to seventeen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
boldness mine

Then we have this, and a traditional interpretation that this reference to Babylon is actually a reference to Rome with Marcus being Saint Mark, the human author of the book of Mark who transmitted the Gospel from the Apostle Peter.

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand. The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

First Peter, Catholic chapter five, Protestant verses five to thirteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
boldness mine

[aMorePerfectUnion]

And if the sacrifice of the mass is a bloodless one, then where does the blood that Catholics claim they drink come from?

They pretend it doesn't physically change, but magically, inside, apart from actual molecules, they were taught it is something else.

Made up out of invisible whole cloth.

[ealgeone]

I agree. Jesus called them on their unbelief. They'd been walking with Him for a while. They had an idea of Who He was. This is evidenced by Peter's reply when asked by Christ if he wanted to leave.

His reply is telling.

Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

69“We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” John 6:68-69 NASB

I agree with Peter....I believe and know that He is the Holy One of God.

[Iscool]

Ignatius warns them about the Gnostics, writing:

Ignatius' writings are known forgeries...Do you have any Catholic writings you can quote that are not known forgeries???

[boatbums]

“He says, it is true, that ‘the flesh profiteth nothing;’ but then, as in the former case, the meaning must be regulated by the subject which is spoken of. Now, because they thought His discourse was harsh and intolerable, supposing that He had really and literally enjoined on them to eat his flesh, He, with the view of ordering the state of salvation as a spiritual thing, set out with the principle, ‘It is the spirit that quickeneth;’ and then added, ‘The flesh profiteth nothing,’—meaning, of course, to the giving of life. He also goes on to explain what He would have us to understand by spirit: ‘The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.’ In a like sense He had previously said: ‘He that heareth my words, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but shall pass from death unto life.’ Constituting, therefore, His word as the life-giving principle, because that word is spirit and life, He likewise called His flesh by the same appelation; because, too, the Word had become flesh, we ought therefore to desire Him in order that we may have life, and to devour Him with the ear, and to ruminate on Him with the understanding, and to digest Him by faith. Now, just before the passage in hand, He had declared His flesh to be ‘the bread which cometh down from heaven,’ impressing on His hearers constantly under the figure of necessary food the memory of their forefathers, who had preferred the bread and flesh of Egypt to their divine calling.”—(Tertullian, On the Resurrection of the Flesh, 37)

[Iscool]

Paul, inspired by The Holy Spirit, asserted Peter is the Apostle to the JEWS, whereas Paul is to the Gentiles. I wonder, do Catholics consider themselves the ‘real’ Jews so that The Holy Inspiration to Paul; is correct to their liking?

That's probably a little deep for the average Catholic to ponder but the higher ups claim the Catholic religion is the spiritual Israel/Jews...

[boatbums]

So, the Catholic church is the door to THE Door which is Jesus Christ???

[Iscool]

This post (406) was meant to be directed to ADSUM

[ealgeone]

I still enjoyed it though!

[af_vet_1981]

Yet he goes on to mention :

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Luke, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses forty seven to forty eight,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James,
boldness mine

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Hebrews, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses four to twelve,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
boldness mine

My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Proverbs, Catholic chapter thirty one, Protestant verses eleven to twelve,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
boldness mine

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation, Catholic chapter three, Protestant verses fourteen to twenty two,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
boldness mine

[boatbums]

I think the way the early church met and worshipped as described by Justin matches most of the services conducted today in Evangelical and Protestant churches more than any Catholic “mass”.

[Iscool]

There is one holy catholic apostolic Church from the days of the Jewish Apostles unto this day.

According to the Catholic religion...And there is only one Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from the days of the Jewish Apostles onto this day too...And there is only one Orthodox Church from the days of the Jewish Apostles unto this day...But the Baptist Church started BEFORE the days of the Apostles...

[Old Yeller]

The mission of the Catholic Church is to lead all to salvation. The article was for guidance. It clearly states “Since the Lord alone sees into our heart, he alone will be our just judge.”

Since when? Every Catholic I've ever known (including myself), said that their religion was a "personal thing". In other words, a cop out to avoid having to give testimony or evangelize. Ever notice also that Catholics cannot just publicly pray from the heart spontaneously? The only prayers they say are memorized repetitious prayers. Why is that?