Judging non-Catholics

OSV.com ^ | 08-17-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[metmom]

Ignatius' writings are known forgeries...Do you have any Catholic writings you can quote that are not known forgeries???

Details, details.....

Don't confuse them with the facts, now.

[af_vet_1981]

...But the Baptist Church started BEFORE the days of the Apostles...

I understand there is a movement called Baptist Brider or Landmark.

Landmark theology, or heritage theology, is the belief among some independent Baptist churches that only local, independent Baptist congregations can truly be called “churches” in the New Testament sense. They believe that all other groups, and even most other Baptists, are not true churches because they deviate from the essentials of landmarkism.

Those essentials are 1) church succession—a landmark Baptist church traces its “lineage” back to the time of the New Testament, usually to Jesus’ calling of the disciples in Galilee; 2) a visible church—the only church is a local (Baptist) body of believers; there is no such thing as a universal Body of Christ; 3) opposition to “pedobaptism” (sprinkling of infants) and “alien immersion” (any baptism not performed under the auspices of a landmark Baptist church)—all such baptisms are null and void.

Another corollary belief is that only faithful landmark Baptists will comprise the Bride of Christ. Other Christians (non-Baptists) will either be the guests or the servants at the marriage supper of the Lamb. These other Christians are called the “family of God” or sometimes the “kingdom of God.” So, in heaven will be all the redeemed (the “family of God”), but only those who have been duly baptized by immersion (in an independent Baptist church) will have the special honor of being the Bride of Christ. The landmark Baptists use the story of the choosing of Isaac’s wife to illustrate God’s choosing of Christ’s Bride (Genesis 24).

Landmark Baptists consider church membership one of the highest priorities in life; in fact, being a member of a landmark Baptist church is second in importance only to one’s personal relationship with Christ. Because of their emphasis on local church membership (and their denial of the universal Body of Christ), landmark Baptists hold a closed communion; that is, only official members of their own local church are allowed to share in the ordinance of communion. No one, not even a Baptist, can partake of the Lord’s table away from his or her home church.

Landmarkism had its beginning in 1851, when a group of Southern Baptists met to oppose the liberalism creeping into their denomination. At issue was an “open” pulpit vs. a “closed” pulpit. Was it right to welcome non-baptized preachers from other denominations as guests in their pulpits? “Here are men,” they said, “who are not baptized according to the New Testament model, men ordained by churches that do not teach salvation by grace through faith, yet we are inviting them to preach as if they were true Christian ministers of the gospel.” Out of this meeting came the Cotton Grove Resolutions, the first articulation of the tenets of landmarkism.

[metmom]

There is one holy catholic apostolic Church from the days of the Jewish Apostles unto this day.

Which one?

The Roman rite or the EO?

They both claim to be the original version of Catholicism and that the other is in schism.

Their doctrines are different, some in key areas.

Which one is correct and why?

They can't both be correct because they teach different things, they have disagreements over doctrine. So one has to be right and one has to be wrong.

Or they are both wrong.

One thing for sure, they both can't be right.

[boatbums]

You must have read my mind! I was thinking the same thing.

[metmom]

I understand there is a movement called Baptist Brider or Landmark.

Sounds a lot like Catholicism except for the baby baptism part.

[af_vet_1981]

Have you ever considered that Moses, the servant of the LORD, of whom much was expected and required, was not allowed to enter the promised land ?

And Moses went up from the plains of Moab unto the mountain of Nebo, to the top of Pisgah, that is over against Jericho. And the LORD shewed him all the land of Gilead, unto Dan, And all Naphtali, and the land of Ephraim, and Manasseh, and all the land of Judah, unto the utmost sea, And the south, and the plain of the valley of Jericho, the city of palm trees, unto Zoar. And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither. So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated. And the children of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days: so the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended. And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses. And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, In all the signs and the wonders, which the LORD sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land, And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel.

Deuteronomy, Catholic chapter thirty four, Protestant verses one to twelve,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James,
boldnessmine

O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms. For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods. In his hand are the deep places of the earth: the strength of the hills is his also. The sea is his, and he made it: and his hands formed the dry land. O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Psalms, Catholic chapter ninety one, in its entirety,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James,
boldnessmine

And yet, there he was.

And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

Matthew, Catholic chapter Seventeen, Protestant verses one to six,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James,
boldnessmine

[boatbums]

As for "faith in Lord Jesus Christ alone"--true. Our faith has to be demonstrated by loving God and each other. We demonstrate our love of God by acts of mercy and kindness towards our fellows.

Sure we are to demonstrate it. But that doesn't save us. The faith alone does.

And may I add the demonstration of our faith is for the benefit of OTHERS, not for God who alone sees the heart, the inward motivation and faith. That's what James was teaching concerning a dead faith vs. a living, active faith that was evidenced by good works. The works that we do - the kind of life we live - is a witness to what we believe, who we follow and love. A genuine faith produces works "meet for repentance" but the works have no bearing on making us worthy of or meriting salvation. It is by grace THROUGH faith we are saved and NOT of ourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast.

[boatbums]

All these different opinions fracture the body of Christ. We need a decider to whom we all listen.

And right now this "decider" is Pope Francis??? Even plenty of Catholics would have a problem with that!

[amihow]

Pope only infallible when speaking ex cathedra. Authentic teaching found when bishops (AND pope ratifying) speak usuall in council.

[Arrian]

Absolutely correct!!!

[boatbums]

And didn’t we just see disagreement on this thread over what makes up “ex cathedra” dogma versus Catechism doctrine? I can show you Papal bulls and council declarations that Catholicism went on later to annul and/or overrule. Just where is this “authentic teaching” supposed to be found these days?

[amihow]

The catechism of JPIi can be used with confidence that it contains authentic teaching. It can be found on Vatican website.

[Mark17]

They pretend it doesn't physically change, but magically, inside, apart from actual molecules, they were taught it is something else.

Made up out of invisible whole cloth.

Even when I was a Catholic, many years ago, I had problems believing this, but the thing that embarrassed me the most, was holy water. I never talked about it with my friends, for fear they would laugh at me.

[Resettozero]

Pope only infallible when speaking ex cathedra. Authentic teaching found when bishops (AND pope ratifying) speak usuall in council.

Thus the pope is head of a closed-door Committee on Infallible Doctrine and casts the deciding vote, if what you post is true.

So, why all the pomp and smoke and mirrors and gargoyles and fabulous costumes and gayness?

What have you and your family bought into?

[daniel1212]

Have you ever considered that Moses, the servant of the LORD, of whom much was expected and required, was not allowed to enter the promised land ?... I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither...Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

Have you ever considered that by equating Moses with the Israelites who died in the wilderness then you are equating Moses with the lost of whom it is said "They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest." (Hebrews 3:10-11). Who (contextually) are an example of the lost, who had "an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." (Hebrews 3:12) "For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end." (Hebrews 3:14) And the end is always till death, or being caught up/resurrected, not purgatory.

Either make Moses one of the lost, which you did with your verses, or place all these in purgatory, which somehow the author of Hebrews "forgot" to teach. The failure of Moses to enter the promised land does place him in the same class as those who did not enter into God's rest due to unbelief, nor does it place him in purgatory. And his sin was not one of ignorance which he neglected to atone for, as per the punitive premise of purgatory.

[daniel1212]

Yet he goes on to mention :

It is the same class of servant, all of which are not ready, with differing degrees of iniquity/unworthiness, and thus differing degree of punishment. As said, the only place mentioned in this parable is with the lost. You are using the difference in the degree of punishment in order to read a temporary place of punishment that would make them fit for Heaven, but which is simply not in the text. Give it up.

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

And which reformable or purifying experience (which 1Co 3 is not) for believers always takes place in this life with its trials and temptations - as can be shown (even the Lord was "perfected"/completely victoriously tested in all points here) - with the only alternative being that of being lost:

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:32)

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Indeed, and only those who overcome/persevere in faith in this life will realize eternal life:

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. (Revelation 2:11)

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (Revelation 3:5)

What you are doing is trying to use the principle of punishment to read purgatory into a text in which nothing is said of a place of reformation or purifying, but only that of being condemned with the world. Again, give it up as it simply is not there and never will be no matter how much you may want to read it into the text.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“the thing that embarrassed me the most, was holy water. I never talked about it with my friends, for fear they would laugh at me.”

Ha! Agreed.

Not made up.
Not from Apostle’s teaching.
Not Christian.

P-A-G-A-N ritual.

God warned us through Paul ...

“But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.”

And...

“1And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. 2For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.”

Best in Him

[amihow]

Any gayness is against the teachings of the Chuch. Beauty and art lift the soul. The lack of it in most other churches starves one.

[Resettozero]

Any gayness is against the teachings of the Chuch.

Clearly, the enforcing the teachings of your church matter not enough to you because you are complicit in the sexual perversion that continues rampant in the rcc priesthood in your State and inside the vatican and goes on unabated because victims who squeal are paid in hard cash that your family has given ostensibly to God. All while you gaze upon the pretty art and architecture in your rcc churches.

Beauty and art lift the soul. The lack of it in most other churches starves one.

Beauty fades, Godless man-made graphic images of "art", so-called, will burn to ashes, but the Word of God endures forever. You and I see that which is Beautiful through different eyes.

[ADSUM]

I disagree. Perhaps you didn’t fully pay attention.

Baptized Catholics are part of the Body of Christ. It is both an individual and a community participation with God.

There are many ways to pray including talking to God,just quietly sitting or kneeling in adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, singing, Mass, the Our Father, prayers for thanks for food and everything that God has given us, novenas, actions (works) for neighbors or the community.

Peace.