Posted on 08/22/2016 5:58:11 PM PDT by ebb tide
Take a chill pill. I never said what does happen. I am speaking of what Church teaching has always been regarding receiving Holy Communion in a state of mortal sin.
I would add that the other sins you speak of are private sins. Those that are divorced and remarried are not private, they have made their re-marriage public. So, yes it is different and it is very understandable why and necessary that they are “singled out”.
and a large financial contribution to the church.
Maybe, maybe not.
Please go look at the list of Mortal Sins it’s a joke.. There are plenty of them and they at not all private...as I said this stuff is just noise. Missing Mass isn’t private but it’s a mortal sin.
I understand the Church’s teachings and logics for their stands but this holier than thou nonsense around the divorced/remarried is silly given everything else that is considered equally as mortal of a sin.
Well here’s the thing. The Church prior to Vatican II didn’t just focus on the divorced and remarried thing. There was a time when the Church actually acted as the Church and took all of these things extremely seriously. Now most priests are Father Feel-Goods. This is why it is extremely important for Catholics to find a good and holy CATHOLIC priest...one that will tell you the Truth and act on it no matter how much it might hurt their feeeeelings.
I’m not making any arguments about feelings, I am simply saying that this whole mortal sin, no Eucharist thing is a joke today. Unless you are in the confessional every week or two, certainly no less than once a month, doesn’t matter who you are as a Catholic, you are carrying at least one and probably far more than one Mortal Sin...
Of course, the reality is, like it or not, regular church going catholics will all be dead within the next few decades... most parishes the regulars are retirement age or better... or closing quickly in on it.
The Catholic Church in the US has some big problems to deal with, and while I understand the reasoning behind all of their Mortal Sins, but to claim that absolution is impossible for any sin is a bit much. Saul hunted down and persecuted the followers of Christ, yet God chose him to be the man who would expand the Church.. there would be no modern church without him... If God forgave Saul, its hard to make arguments that God’s Grace ends if you are divorced or remarried. After all, a priest who used his position to molest and rape children can be forgiven, yet, a divorced or remarried Catholic cannot be forgiven?
Yes, I know the new testament.. and yes God hates divorce, but even Mosaic law allowed for it because God knew the hearts of man are frail and weak... so suddenly God forgot this and banned it entirely? I don’t think so.
The Church’s teachings are what they are, the Cannon is what it is, but I think it faces a very very long uphill climb in the modern world.
How dare you assume to know the state of my (or any other practicing Catholic's) soul.
Oh and of course, if you are willing to write a big enough check, amazing the Church will grant you an annulment and then you are all in good standing again... Joke.
My grandparents were married to each other for decades, had and raised 4 children... divorced, remarried each other again a few years later... were married for another decade or so, divorced each other again....
Yet in spite of all of that, my Grandfather was able to successfully get an annulment from the Church... so he could be back in good standing for little more than opening his checkbook.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I loved my Grandfather, he was one of the finest men I have known in my life, flawed in ways like we all are, but truly a great human being, when he passed last year, the receiving line at his funeral was non stop for over 2 hours... I received condolences from nearly everyone of consequence in his town of note.. I have never seen such a thing in my entire life, the lives he touched in various ways in his journey through this world, and how many of them made a point to come pay their respects...
He was not the mayor, or incredibly wealthy, but he was very active in his community, and touched many many lives.
So I don’t point this out as an attack on my Grandfather, but to point out the silliness of the whole divorced/remarried nonesense that seems to get latched in on when it comes to communion.
Please, go read the list of what all the mortal sins are according to Catholic Doctrine, if you believe you have not engaged in any of them at least once a month, then you are not human, and really don’t need to worry about your soul anyway.
No, you tell me what “all” these mortal sins are “Mr-I-Know-Catholic Doctrine-better-than-Catholics” that I supposedly engage in at least once per month.
I do not know the particulars of your grandparents’ situation, but a couple who are divorced and remarried to each other twice might not have the belief that marriage is a permanent condition. If this was the conclusion of an anullment investigation, then there was a valid reason to find a marriage to be null regardless of its length or resulting children.
More importantly, though, are you saying that civil divorce actually ends a Catholic marriage? Otherwise it seems you think adultery is ‘silly’ and ‘a joke’
Love, O2
I never said you engaged in ALL of them every month, but who knows maybe you do.. but the list is pretty complete, and any breathing human is pretty much going to be guilty of at least one of them on the outside monthly, probably far more often than that.
Go see for yourself...
http://www.saintaquinas.com/mortal_sin.html
I am hard pressed to believe any conscious living person has not engaged in some level in at least one of these on a fairly regular basis... obviously some of them I doubt most people have ever engaged in... yes, engaged in willfully and with full knowledge of their nature.
We are all human, and we are all flawed and failed creatures... so to think we get through a month without a lesser urges occasionally coming to the fore, is pretty laughable to me.
“a couple who are divorced and remarried to each other twice might not have the belief that marriage is a permanent condition”
Hahahaha you do realize the insane circular logic you just put forth? Hey, I divorced, but you know what the Church might not grant us an annulment, so you know what, lets get hitched again, and divorced again so we can claim we didn’t think it was permanent. Please, the church’s stand on annulment is pretty much, if you write a big enough check, you are golden. Its basically a bureaucratic tax to the church... might as well be the selling of indulgences.
I do believe that divorce happens yes, and I do believe that just as God allowed for divorce in Mosaic Law, he still does today, because he knows the humans hearts can be hard... Are you suggesting that suddenly God forgot that fact when Christ walked the earth? That suddenly, what he had known about the nature of man, and accounted for, was now no longer true? That doesn’t sound like a very wise God to me. No doubt God hates divorce, but got hates all sins... but that doesn’t mean God writes of mankind because he knows we all will fail and sin.
The Church is free to teach its cannon, and have whatever processes it deems fit to put into place, but this stupid divorce/remarried no communion thing is just laughable, as any mortal sin should keep those from the Eucharist, and yes honestly most folks, unless they are hitting the confessional no less than once a month are probably walking around with at least one if not a few on their souls, but are still taking and getting the Eucharist without anyone making stinks about it. So, either decide to enforce your dogma and doctrine as written, or stop trying to portray one mortal sin as different and special to others. If you want to talk about who shouldn’t receive the Eucharist and why, that’s fine, just talk about the whole package instead of always going to this one situation and trying to make it the case, while ignoring all the others.
I don’t think Adultery is silly or a joke, but I do think that the entire process and stand of the Church on these particular matters is absurdly comical. NO divorce is not something to take lightly, but to believe that if a relationship ends that hey, if you want to continue living your life, you must now go forward and live your life from that point forward as an emotionless soul is flat out insanity.
And as to your attempt to limit it to “catholic marriage” that’s a joke as well because the Catholic Church recognizes any marriage, civil, or in any other denomination as presumed a legitimate marriage... So even if you were to have a completely secular wedding, as a Catholic, if you were to divorce, you are still married.. even though the Church had nothing to do with the union... I understand their arguments for this stand, but its pretty tough to say, if you had a civil union, you can’t have a civil divorce because hey the Catholic Church still thinks you are married even though it had nothing to do with your original union to begin with.
So lets recap, a person marries, divorces, then remarries... but never goes and pays for an annulment, well guess what? In the Catholic Church you are now an adulterer... Even if the catholic church had no involvement in your marriage.. even if your spouse abandoned you... or even physically abused you... if you don’t go ask for an annulment you are an adulterer and living in mortal sin.
You see the Catholic Teaching puts themselves into a box, if a legitimate marriage occurs... NOTHING can break that marriage... so, if that’s the case, to somehow come up with an OUT, they have a tribunal to determine if the marriage was actually a marriage to begin with.. which of course is kind of laughable, because unless someone put a gun to your head and made you say I Do.. you pretty much willfully got married.... but the church knowing like any sane human being would know, that humans are flawed and failed creatures, that divorce will happen so, since you can’t break a marriage, we have to twist ourselves in knots to declare no marriage actually happened... This is just as ludicrous as the idea that certain jews have if you tie a string in a big enough loop and both ends touch your house, you are still inside your house when you are actually in your backyard... so you can go in your backyard on those days when the teachings say you must stay in your home.
We will all stand before our maker at one point or another, and if being divorced and remarried is the worst thing you got on the strikes against you after 80 years on this planet, not saying God will be happy about it and may not have to face some judgement for it, but if he can forgive the pedophile who raped while acting as the representative of God on earth... I think God’s grace will still be there for the divorced and remarried.
Now if you want to talk specifically about "lesser urges" which I suspect is another way of referring to masturbation without coming right out and saying it, you might be surprised what a practicing Catholic in the state of grace with the help of God is capable of avoiding. It also helps to be married. ;-)
This is not to say that I have never been guilty of mortal sin...absolutely have....but not on a weekly or monthly basis as you suggest. Catholics that go to confession on a regular basis and receive Christ in Holy Communion while in a state of grace receive additional graces to combat such sins.
And this is wrong because how does a priest or any other parishioner know that you didn't attend mass at a different church? On the other hand, if he knows you, he knows you divorced and remarried....it's public knowledge.
And furthermore, how does anyone know whether someone missed mass for a good and allowable reason (you do realize that there are such things, right)?
You really shouldn't speak on Catholicism when you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.
ping.
Wow.
Can you explain David and Bathsheba? Was David forgiven?
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