Posted on 09/19/2016 5:45:30 PM PDT by marshmallow
Speaking on September 16 at a meeting of a joint Catholic-Orthodox theological commission, the chief ecumenical officer of the Russian Orthodox Church said that the activity of the "Uniates"-- the Eastern churches in communion with Rome-- is the greatest obstacle to greater unity between Catholics and Orthodox.
The statement by Metropolitan Hilarion was a familiar complaint from the Moscow patriarchate, which has frequently criticized the Eastern-rite Ukrainian Catholic Church, accusing that body of fueling tensions in Ukraine. The Russian Orthodox Church regards Ukraine as its "canonical territory"-- a claim that the Holy See does not accept.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicculture.org ...
WHY are they "obstacles"? That is SUCH a specific charge.
Just curious.
ping
I imagine it’s because, if they were to reunite with Rome, too, then there would be two separate Catholic hierarchies in the same geographic area.
That's possible.
However, the Catholic Church has had to deal with folks like the Medicis, so THIS "issue" would be a stroll in the park for them.
They would come up with SOMETHING.
On dogma, they are the same.
On liturgy, they differ. But that is allowable.
While there is some truth to that, that's a "we'll solve it when we get there" kind of problem.
The most charitable reading of the Metropolitan is that he speaks as though he is forgetting that these Eastern Catholic Churches (so-called "Uniate" Churches) exist as much more than a theoretical construct -- we are talking about an assembly of individual people with identity and conscience.
The Christians in these Churches are both Eastern AND Catholic. If we were to do as the Metropolitan desires and somehow remove the "stumbling block", would we choose to rob these people of their identity by forcing them to become Latin or rob them of their conscience by forcing them to become Orthodox? Neither is acceptable.
Ukrainian orthodox and Ukrainian Catholic have always been close.
Russian Orthodox is an arm of the Russian government. Nobody in the east trusts them.
The stumbling block is not between Orthodox and Catholic, but between Russia and everyone else. Ukrainian churches want nothing to do with Russia.
From my conversations with a Ukrainian Catholic friend who still has some ties to Ukraine, that was always my understanding. The reason I phrased the dilemma as I did is that it draws out the Metropolitan's true motive -- which I believe to be exactly what you have said.
Does anyone know what has happened to the Ukrainian Catholics in Crimea since the Russian annexation?
Persecution, arrest, they had to flee at the hands of the ‘ecumentical’ Russian Orthodox.
It didn't work.
Bergoglio is the obstacle to any unity.
While there is some truth to that, that's a "we'll solve it when we get there" kind of problem.
The most charitable reading of the Metropolitan is that he speaks as though he is forgetting that these Eastern Catholic Churches (so-called "Uniate" Churches) exist as much more than a theoretical construct -- we are talking about an assembly of individual people with identity and conscience.
The Christians in these Churches are both Eastern AND Catholic. If we were to do as the Metropolitan desires and somehow remove the "stumbling block", would we choose to rob these people of their identity by forcing them to become Latin or rob them of their conscience by forcing them to become Orthodox? Neither is acceptable.
I agree completely. I think the Roman Catholic church has more experience, and is less suspicious of alternative kinds of structures that might be used to address the issue, such as personal prelatures (Opus Dei, and possibly the SSPX), military ordinariates, and even things like the personal ordinariates for Anglicans who have converted to Catholicism. These types of structures may be very helpful in this kind of situation, but I suspect the Orthodox patriarchs may balk at them.
Not 100% true. There are some things like the filioque with which the Orthodox strongly disagree. That is the Catholic belief that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son. The Orthodox believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from only the Father. Admittedly this is something that on the surface has very little practical application in ordinary Christian life. But it does get at the very nature of God, and is a serious point of theology that needs to be resolved. It's in our creed, after all.
There are other things, too, like marriage after divorce. The Catholic teaching on this matter for the last 2,000 years is crystal clear, and it has enormous consequences for ordinary Christian life. But the Orthodox beliefs and practices are rather muddled. They will need to "get with the program" before true unity can be achieved. Pope Francis' non-binding, non-infallible statements about this notwithstanding.
On liturgy, they differ. But that is allowable.
This is true. However, there may need to be some deep review of their liturgy to ensure it is fully Catholic. I don't know that to be the case. I'm just saying maybe. I don't know their liturgy enough to know if it is exactly like that of the Uniate churches.
Thanks.
When will the Moscow Patriarchate identify the "canonical territory" of the See of Rome, and agree to stay out of it? ;-)
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