Posted on 11/03/2016 9:39:17 AM PDT by ebb tide
Jesus answered them, ‘This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.’
“...Catholics can’t even agree, even officially, if non-Catholics are going to heaven.”
That’s false.
1) Protestants can’t agree over who is going to heaven or not - and I mean PROTESTANT SECTS not just individual Protestants.
2) Catholics either agree with the Church’s teaching on the subject or they don’t. If they don’t, then they are in disagreement with the Church. It’s not about Catholics disagreeing with one another but with people calling themselves Catholics while disagreeing with the Catholic Church!
3) Protestant sects can’t agree on Baptism, divorce and remarriage, the Real Presence, veneration of saints, the use of liturgy, authority, the use of scripture, how grace is received, and many other things.
The question is do you believe this promise of Jesus?
Do you believe this promise of Christ?
Being Catholic and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.
Being Protestant and $2 will get you a cup of coffee and a glass of water.
Yeah, and your friends all have Porsches so you need a Benz.
“Catholics cannot even say for sure if they’re going to Heaven.”
That’s not true. I KNOW I will go to Heaven if I cling to Christ. I also KNOW I will not go to Heaven if I reject Him. What I don’t KNOW is the future story of my life nor can I say with absolute assurance I will always reject mortal sin. If I died at this moment, I firmly believe I would go to Heaven. I have no plans on committing serious sins, but I know I am perfectly capable of doing it because I have done it in the past.
“Yet John 5:24 indicates we can know if we take Him at His word.”
Jesus also said, “Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 10:16)
Jesus also said, “If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.” (John 15:10)
Jesus also said, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46)
“Do you believe this promise of Christ?”
Absolutely - and I also absolutely believe Him when He said anyone who listened to His Church, His Apostles, listened to Him. I also absolutely believe Him when He said anyone who keeps His commands will remain in His love. Unlike you, I believe in all of scripture so I believe St. Paul when he wrote, “See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21). Note that he was writing to people WHO ALREADY BELIEVED IN CHRIST. Paul warned them that they “will be cut off” unless they “continue in [Jesus’] kindness.” I also believe John when he wrote, “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). You reject that, however, not outright, but by equivocation. I believe St. Paul when he wrote, “I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified” (1 Cor. 9:27). You reject that, however, not outright, but by equivocation.
At the end of my life I hope to be able to say: “I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day” (2 Tim. 4:7-8). But I know, as imperfect as I am, I have remind myself about this: “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”(Phil. 2:12).
Thus, through the inspired words of the Holy Spirit in scripture I say that I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved now (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like St. Paul I am working out my salvation (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).
So, yes, I ABSOLUTELY believe in the promises of Christ. What I want to avoid is the sin of presumption. And I want to avoid it precisely so I can hear those words I long to hear - “Well done, good and faithful servant, because thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will place thee over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21)
“Being Catholic and $2 will get you a cup of coffee.”
I prefer tea.
“Being Protestant and $2 will get you a cup of coffee and a glass of water.”
But the coffee actually is coffee substitute and cold to boot and the water has flies floating in it.
Believing The Promise of God is not presumption. The great demon has beguiled you ...
Sounds like a big maybe from your argument. You may or may not go to Heaven.
If you’re going to ask a question about the Catholic faith in which you want to think you’ve somehow stumped or embarrassed or caught out Catholics, then ask ebb tide. If you want the question competently answered simply ask someone, almost anyone, else.
Well, that was quite an effort, and i was aware that infallibility is connected to the office and not to the pope personally, and your explanation enables those such as ebb tide to affirm they have no problem with but Keenan’s Catechism. As might explaining that "no decision [as referring to infallible statements]of his can oblige, under pain of heresy, unless it be received and enforced by the teaching body; that is, by the bishops of the Church” does not militate against the premise that the pope is judged by no one, that there is neither appeal not recourse against a judgment or a decree by him. Or it may work against him.
“Sounds like a big maybe from your argument. You may or may not go to Heaven.”
Ignore the scriptures to your own peril. I simply believe as St. Paul did.
“Well, that was quite an effort,”
Actually, no.
“and i was aware that infallibility is connected to the office and not to the pope personally,”
Many Protestants DO NOT KNOW THAT and that’s why Keenan wrote what he wrote.
“and your explanation enables those such as ebb tide to affirm they have no problem with but Keenan’s Catechism.”
Until you pointed it out, ebb tide most likely never even heard of Keenan’s Catechism. And, if the truth enables ebb tide to do something, how is that an issue in itself? What ebb tide does is ebb tide’s responsibility. The truth is not effected by ebb tide and the truth is in no way harmed by ebb tide’s actions. The truth will remain long after you, I and ebb tide are gone.
“As might explaining that “no decision [as referring to infallible statements]of his can oblige, under pain of heresy, unless it be received and enforced by the teaching body; that is, by the bishops of the Church” does not militate against the premise that the pope is judged by no one, that there is neither appeal not recourse against a judgment or a decree by him. Or it may work against him.”
I posted the truth so that you would know it. What ebb tide or you do with it is in your hands. Papal infallibility belongs in the hands of the pope. If you don’t believe it, only you are effected by that choice. It changes nothing for the pope or for the Catholic Church.
Then why do you believe you can lose your salvation as you are sealed by the Spirit as noted in Ephesians 1:13-14? No where does it ever state we are unsealed.
If misapplied it can lead people astray, as has been illustrated by how Catholicism uses those particular words.
non-Catholics always feel free to claim they believe what Christ said while they're totally contradicting what Christ Himself said.
Quite a broadbrushed accusation. Do you have some examples?
I’ve been noticing for a few years that Mary is more prominent in Catholicism than Jesus.
It’s not the Mary of the Bible though.
And apparitions such as found at Fatima are not from God.
Mary, the mother of Jesus, a simple handmaid of the Lord, would not do any of the things that Catholics have made up about her.
“Sure, say the magic words when you’re five years old and live any way you like until the day you die.”
Be sprinkled when a few days old and magically original sin leaves the infant.
They are always “marked” and have no need to be baptized in a Biblical fashion.
Your quote above seems to show that you have no idea what it is like to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
That 5yr old will be brought up with Biblical principles and, when reaching the age of reason, make a solid commitment to follow Jesus as He instructed.
The baby sprinkled will not get any Christian follow up most likely, just follow the pharisaical steps dictated to him/her by the leaders of Catholicism.
“...your deeds are evil.”
My, you know the hearts of people?
I had to look and see if this was in the Religion forum when I saw your ad hominid accusation.
Personal attacks are not allowed in the RF IIRC, save them for when you hang out with your posse
“Then why do you believe you can lose your salvation as you are sealed by the Spirit as noted in Ephesians 1:13-14?”
I believe the truth - that a man can lose his salvation - because that is exactly what is taught in scripture, in Christian tradition, and by common sense. Not even all Protestants believe in OSAS.
Dan Corner’s book makes the scriptural case abundantly clear - and he’s not a Catholic but a former Catholic who opposes the Catholic faith. 800 pages of info: http://tinyurl.com/ztcacvb Or you could get the 230 page compact version: http://tinyurl.com/jlr9lm4
“No where does it ever state we are unsealed.”
The problem, of course, is not the verse, but your understanding of it: http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/seal.htm
“Mary, the mother of Jesus, a simple handmaid of the Lord, would not do any of the things that Catholics have made up about her.”
You’re forgetting two things:
1) The “Mary of the Bible” as you refer to her is now in Heaven and, therefore, what you think she “would not do” no longer makes sense. She is a saint in Heaven and before the throne. Your limited mind is the issue - not what Mary is capable of doing, or what Mary does, through the power of her Divine Son.
2) You wrote, “And apparitions such as found at Fatima are not from God.” Yet, if you read about Fatima, you would discover Our Lady of Fatima was every bit the “simple handmaid of the Lord” she had always been but is now also a heavenly saint. She’s no less humble - even though she is great - because what greatness she has comes from her Son and not from herself in herself.
Christ is not one to give and then take away salvation.
It must be a nightmare being a catholic.
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