Posted on 11/28/2016 3:32:06 PM PST by ebb tide
It is once more thanks to the untiring Guiseppe Nardi, author of the German traditional website Katholisches.info, that we learn of the confidant statement recently made by the Brazilian Cardinal Cláudio Hummes – who is a close friend of Pope Francis – concerning the Dubia of the Four Cardinals. Cardinal Hummes is also the prominent promoter of the slackening of the priestly celibacy. However, he also has been under critique for questioning whether Jesus Christ really was opposed to homosexuality.
On 25 November, 2016, Hummes gave an interview to the Spanish news website Religion Digital. In this interview, the former Archbishop of São Paulo commented, also, on the recent Dubia published by the Four Cardinals concerning Amoris Laetitia. In his own comments, Hummes makes it look as if this resistance is insignificant and of very little weight. He says: “Without wishing to relativize this fact [of the Dubia] …. but these are only four cardinals. In the Church, we are more than 200 [cardinals].”
Hummes continues his defense of the pope with the startling remark that “the whole College of Cardinals is with him [Francis].” When speaking about the importance of accepting diversity while keeping unity within the Church, Hummes first adds:
This diversity is being delegitimized when the unity is threatened by divisions. The division is really an evil, not the diversity. The Church wants to be open to all sensibilities [sic]. The pope says that we should walk together and that we should not exclude anyone. […] If someone wants to cut himself off, that is another case.
After rejecting the idea of a homogenous uniformity the cardinal then adds the following incomparably stunning remarks about the four cardinals themselves and their “divisive” Dubia:
The pope could be wounded by the motives which led these four persons [sic!] to go so far as to want to correct him. But, he is very calm [sic!], relaxed, and moves forward. He knows which is the right path that one has to follow. And the College of Cardinals is with him, without any larger problems. The whole College of Cardinals is with him. [my emphasis]
As Nardi rightly asks, why, then, did the pope avoid meeting with the College of Cardinals as a whole at the last 19 November Consistory in Rome?
So those 4 Cardinal are not part of the College of Cardinals?
So now they’ve gone from being ambiguous (the paragraph in Amoris Laetitia) to trying to deceive (Cupich saying that the bishops had voted on it, without saying they had voted it down) to flat-out lying?
> he also has been under critique for questioning whether Jesus Christ really was opposed to homosexuality.
Should have been defrocked.
The elites of all stripes are realizing that the pendulum has reached its apex and if they don’t cram through their fundamental transformation right now they will never be able to.
Sounds more like Daniel 6 where the governors and satraps thronged before the King and said “everyone”, implying Daniel also, agreed on the decree that got Daniel thrown into the Lions’ Den. ;-)
Just as science isn’t about consensus, neither is religion. There is faith and truth. If you’ve been asked a question, answer it. Deflecting to how many friends you have doesn’t serve the cause of truth.
The Pope has sown confusion. He should clear it up. If he is in error, admit it. If he is not, he should be able to defend his teaching.
Without having reviewed any particular history, I am suspicious of this BRAZILIAN Cardinal’s opinion on the subject.
Lord, have Mercy.
The ongoing absurdity of this Puntif (pun intended) and this Vatican has brought me to realize that the Church Militant is surely experiencing the purification, represented by our endurance and our devotion to the true faith and Holy Mother Church.
Through the warnings of Sacred Scripture itself and in the words of past Popes of Holy Church, we should not be surprised or taken unaware by the chomping jaws of the wolves.
It should be an honor to be so tested, as we were each created for a time like this. Thanks be to God that we are even still clear eyed, able yet to stand, and not blinded to the prowling evil spirits seeking the destruction of souls.
Pray that we are always made able to stand, by the Grace and Mercy of God, our Saviour.
Really?
I am beginning to think the vatican has adapted the muzzie practice of takkiya.
The Four do remain Cardinals of the College, but have been booted from Vatican leadership positions, where they were placed by Pope Benedict.
I believe, most all of Pope Benedict’s placements have by now been removed, part and parcel, out of Rome and replaced with the likes of wolves in robes.
Honestly, I believe he has sewn more than confusion.
There is all too obviously a clear and present danger of an agenda being implemented to murder Catholic identity and so dilute the faith and practices of Holy Mother Church that any fool should soon be pleased to bustle up and down the aisles and corridors selling what ever a money changer sells. Be it sodomy for gays, dissolution of the Sacrament of Marriage, false teaching that tickles ears of the outsiders who are pleased to move in, etc.
Time for a Second Reformation in ALL Christian churches to expelled Marxists and rump riders.
For an entire lifetime, the hierarchy have been doing their best to drive as many of the laity out of the church as possible. The two Popes who have done the most in this regard are Paul VI, with the uglification of the Mass, and Bergoglio, with his Marxism and moral and intellectual chaos. John Paul II failed almost perfectly to seek out holy, orthodox priests for the episcopacy.
The Church has tried to treat the sinners, of which she is filled.
The Church accepts that some do suffer from proclivities that are not heterosexual, but just as the Church espouses devotion to one’s spouse, and virtue among the priesthood, the Church also espouses that a man with proclivities that are irregular (not heterosexual) must also rise to virtue and abstain from acting on these attractions.
It is a mistake to accept gay men into the priesthood wholesale. I suspect that it may be a very few who might be so devoted to God that they are supernaturally made able to stay loyal to their vows, while in the constant company of other men in Seminary.
It is very bad what happened in those decades in the Catholic Church and in the Seminaries in the West, when in some places normal heterosexuals men eschewed the priesthood and left Seminary, over the tolerance and in some cases the encouragement of gay men seeking the priesthood.
Terrible. The Church is still suffering repercussions from such sinful oversight and naivety on the part of others, who thought the scandalous could be cleansed with “modern psychology”. Oh, me.
I am still learning of the errors of JP II. I am thankful for what he did with Poland, in Poland, for Poland. I am grateful for the good he truly did accomplish against Communism, but yes, my friend, there are grave problems as well, and I am reminded again that no man can be an idol entirely.
The results of the Cardinals in place who could not discern “Francis” are clear to us all. The bulk of them were placed, sorrowfully, by JPII.
I’d love to read Dante’s take on our current pope and cardinals.
Well, if they are all in agreement, Francis shouldn’t have any problem giving a clear five word answer consisting of some combination of “yes”es and “no”es to the dubia presented.
If he wants to double down, he can even attach a penalty to it or try to formally promulgate it and make it binding in some comprehensible manner on the whole Church.
Another problem: JPII dismissed reports of sexual abuse by priests and bishops because he had seen good priests framed by the Communists.
He also believed that no Cardinal would ever lie to him.
It was said often that the same man who defeated worldwide Communism was defeated by the Cardinals of the Catholic Church.
There is an inherent danger in a system in which men with little prospect of worldly success are put in positions of great power, prestige, and comfort. It is no accident that in Donald Trump there is vastly more intellectual honesty than there is in the Pope.
“Just as science isn’t about consensus, neither is religion.”
Well said. Thank you.
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