Posted on 10/12/2017 7:43:41 PM PDT by vladimir998
The heresy charges were a pretext.
It is clear from all of the attacks that Thomas More made on Tyndale, and the fact that 6 men were executed (i.e. murdered for those of us who unlike you disagree with killing people for their religious beliefs) for the alleged “crime” of heresy, that Thomas More was complicit in the pursuit of murdering Tyndale or, at the very least, similar men.
It is quite ironic that he is held up by your religion as a saint and martyr.
The Bible does not treat heresy as a capital crime or even a crime under civil law.
Nor is there any teaching of Christ or tradition of the apostles that supports such a heinous ideology.
But that has not stopped you from supporting it.
I admitted my error. That’s what honest people do. Unlike you.
Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing the camel.
“You apparently didn’t know about Tyndale’s heretical beliefs, but that doesn’t stop you from saying he wasn’t executed for heresy when anyone who actually reads about him knows his belief in psychopannychism means he was a heretic.”
If I could interview every last non-clergy person who attends your local Catholic congregation, I’d wager that not a single one would be able to identify what psychopannychism is or in what way it disagrees with their or their church’s views.
Any one of your congregants could have easily been accused of heresy as a pretext to murder them 500 years ago. But of course they would simply recant any belief that would cause them to be killed. But it would not be because they believed or understood these doctrines. It would simply be for fear of death and to avoid things like being put on the rack.
You have a sick and depraved mind when you can not renounce these dastardly acts in the name of religion, and fail to do so in order to cling to your supposedly correct doctrines.
It is men like yourself that made it necessary for the Reformation to occur. Stubborn, proud clergymen who could justify the most demonic and diabolical wickedness in the name of Jesus necessitated men like Tyndale and Wycliffe to operate outside of the auspices and drapes of religion that wicked men such as yourself hold to be sacrosanct.
You are living proof that the incredible stubborn unbelief, unrepentance, hypocrisy, and murderous hatred that drove the religious leaders of Christ’s day to murder Him is still alive and operating under the guise of true religion today.
Thank God that Evangelical Protestants formed this nation so there would be a place on earth to flee from the tyrannical religious practices of men such as yourself.
Tyndale believed in psychopannychism and that means he was a heretic.
Nothing you say will change that fact.
Nothing you say matters because Tyndale was a heretic.
That’s the reality and you can’t change. Go ahead and keep throwing in whatever kitchen sink you’re onto now. I’m not even bothering to read your posts. I’ll just keep posting what no one can refute: TYNDALE WAS A HERETIC.
Your a heretic.
Your an advocate of murdering in the name of Christ.
Jesus warned of false religious leaders “who desire to go around in long robes” in Mark 12:38.
Who does that sound like today? Does not sound like the Evangelical Protestant Christians I know of, including the ministers of their churches.
Jesus condemned the practice of religious leaders who loved to be given prestigious titles such as “father” in Matthew 23:9.
Who does that sound like today? Does not sound like the Evangelical Protestant Christians I know of, including the ministers of their churches.
Jesus condemned the religious practice of empty repetitions in prayer and copying heathen religious customs in Matthew 6:7.
Who does that sound like today?
Jesus warned against the religious leaders who nullify the commandments of God to keep their man-made traditions in Mark 7:13.
I can think of a group of religious leaders that demand their adherents to do this today. They ignore God’s commands of idolatry and institute practices bowing and kneeling before images, praying toward those images, offering those images flowers and incense. They twist communion which Christ instituted to remember Him in order to give praise to other religious figures.
“Nothing you say matters because...”
Because you can’t tell truth from fiction. But no one here believes you.
Here I am replying to a guy who bears false witness by accusing me of bearing false witness, who is a promoter of idolatry, and an advocate of murdering Protestants for deviating from Catholic beliefs (including the Catholic practices of idolatry).
You ought to have made your screen name valdimir1448 after Vlad the Impaler rather than Saint Vladimir of Kiev. While both identified with the Catholic Church, the prior was known for his acts of kindness, and the latter of course was known for his barbaric cruelty.
“I’m not even bothering to read your posts.”
Did you ever?
I’ll post them for the record, so everyone can see what a huge phony you are.
Someone should keep an eye on you. I really would not be surprised to read about you in the news. Headlines will be about some Catholic obsessed with heretical Protestants and started doing “God’s work” by kidnapping them and imprisoning them.
This guy loves to post anti-Protestant screeds and then gets real offended when he gets called out for his lies, hypocrisy, and anti-Christian religious doctrines and practices.
Someone who rises up to defend the murder of men who gave us the Bible in the English language are just beyond the pale.
For the record, anyone who is looking to see the posting history of vladimir998 the impaler, should pay special attention to his repeated refusal to condemn the burning at the stake of Bible translator William Tyndale.
No. vladimir998 DEFENDS the killing of William Tyndale.
Your -> You’re
“Tyndale believed in psychopannychism”
Thank God that men like Thomas More did not draft the Constitution of the United States.
We might have thought crimes and men who share the beliefs of vladimir998 would be signing up to be executioners.
Would you grant us the kindness of strangling us like your heroes did before burning Tyndale at the stake?
Or would you roast us alive like so many “heretics” of that era experienced?
I really would like to know your position on burning heretics alive versus just merely strangling them and burning their corpses.
“I have repeatedly pointed out that Tyndale believed in psychopannychism yet you have not condemned him for his heresy.”
I have no idea if Tyndale believed in soul sleep. I don’t. But I would not call someone a heretic for disagreeing with me.
And I certainly would not justify that person being burned at the stake for it.
The Bible in the Old and New Testaments speaks of death as “sleep.” We are told the dead know nothing.
The Bible also distinguishes between the soul and spirit. Death is when the spirit leaves the body and returns to God.
I would much rather work together with a fellow Christian who disagreed with me over the issue of soul sleep than one who advocates the made-up place of Purgatory and advocated the false religious practice of praying for souls in this made-up place or giving money to get family members out of this place. What a scam.
And I especially would rather join my fellow follower of Christ who risked his life to conscientiously translate the Bible into the language of the common people as God commanded rather than those who resisted God’s command, fought vehemently against those who obeyed, and murdered them.
That’s what real heresy is.
The fact that you defend such murders makes you the heretic.
When you pass into the next life you’ll be wishing that soul sleep was correct.
“Your a heretic.”
Nope. But you’re clearly posting like an triggered spammer.
“Your an advocate of murdering in the name of Christ.”
No, actually I’m not. But you’ll bear false witness and say I am even though you have no evidence whatsoever.
Tyndale was a heretic. He believed in the heresy of psychopannychism. Case closed.
I’m not going to bother reading all of your spamming posts.
When the heathen tried to offer sacrifices to Paul and Barnabas as deities in Acts 14, they ripped their clothes and insisted that no one do such a thing.
Yet a certain religious group today makes images of men like Paul, and advocates bowing to such images and offering things like flowers, incense, etc.
But since these are just images they can not rip their clothes and protest.
When John bowed to the angel in Revelation, the angel forbad him. John and other apostles strictly warned Christians of the dangers of being led into idolatry.
Yet a certain religious group today makes images of angels, and advocates bowing to such images and praying toward them.
When a man wanted to bow before Peter in Acts 10, Peter made him stand up because he protested that he is only a man.
Yet a certain religious group today makes images of men like Peter, and advocates holding communion in honor of such persons / images of such persons.
But the apostles warned of eating things offered to idols from the first days of the Church (in Acts at the first council) to the last (in Revelation).
They said that religious leaders who taught such practices were like Balaam who cast a stumbling block to cause Israel to sin. Again, false religion trying to destroy people of true faith.
Paul was single but said he had the liberty to marry of he so chose.
1 Corinthians 9:5
Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
The apostolic tradition required bishops / elders / overseers to be married and have children (raised well).
1 Timothy 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach.
Paul prophesied about the religious doctrine of demons that would come, a doctrine that forbad marriage:
1 Timothy 4:3
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Which religious group could he have been talking about?
Jesus commended, in Revelation, those who tested claims of apostleship. The Bible plainly states that apostolic authority is only conferred by divine appointment, and must be to someone who has seen the risen Christ and has performed apostolic signs confirming their claim to apostolic authority. And even though Paul had proof of apostolic authority, the scriptures commend the Bereans for verifying his doctrine by searching the scriptures.
Acts 17:11
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
Yet the Catholic Church demands unquestioned allegiance. It has killed people for attempting to equip men and women with the ability to search the scriptures as God desires. It has killed people for questioning it’s doctrines and practices. It has claimed to itself, not merely a line of succession, but the ability to add to the traditions of the apostles. It claims apostolic authority without the evidence. But true men and women of faith have tested these apostolic claims and found them to be lies, just as Jesus commended the churched who did so.
The early church fathers understood the prophecies of Daniel and the teachings of Christ and the apostles about the end times events Daniel spoke of. They recognized the coming apostasy of the church of Rome.
1. Tertullian (155–222): He spoke about the future breakup of the Roman Empire, “whose separation into ten kingdoms will bring on antichrist.” (The division of the Roman Empire happened circa 476 A.D.)
2. Cyril of Jerusalem (315–386): “There shall arise, at the same time, ten kingdoms of the Romans at different places, indeed, the reigning all of them at the same time. After them, the eleventh will be antichrist, who, through magical wickedness, will seize the power of the Romans.” The Papacy made Rome the seat of its authority, and took the title of Pontifex Maximus from pagan Rome for its supreme bishop, the pope.
3. Jerome (347–420): “Says the apostle [Paul to the Thessalonians], ‘Unless the Roman Empire should first be desolated, and antichrist proceed, Christ will not come.’”
4. Augustine, bishop of Hippo (540–604): “I say confidently therefore, that whosoever calls himself Universal Bishop, or even desires in his pride to be called such, is the forerunner of antichrist.”
Yet, the Catholic Church demands that all other congregations throughout the world submit to Rome.
Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit would lead His disciples into all truth.
John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
But the Catholic Church resists the Spirit of God, claiming the power to explain scriptures to be reserved to itself.
The pattern we see in the religious leaders of Israel we see repeated in Catholicism:
Acts 7:51
You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.
“you’re clearly posting like an triggered spammer”
Nah. I’m just not going to leave your nasty article and nasty commentary unanswered.
If you don’t want your nastiness answered and exposed, then don’t post it.
Don’t dish it out if you can’t take it.
“actually I’m not”
More non-denial denials. You could have ended this with a few words, but you won’t for whatever reason.
“I’m not going to bother reading all of your spamming posts.”
They’re for the record.
Thank God for men like Tyndale. As he said: “I defy the Pope, and all his laws; and if God spares my life, ere many years, I will cause the boy that driveth the plow to know more of the Scriptures than thou dost!”
It is so wonderful to live in a nation where proclaiming the truth and what is morally right does not currently get a person burned at the stake.
Too bad certain people [they know who they are] would prefer it otherwise.
“I’m not going to bother reading all of your spamming posts.”
You said that in #223 already.
But you read some more and replied to some more.
Are you sure you are not “bearing false witness?”
I mean I don’t interpret it that way, but you appear to have a more strict interpretation of the meaning of that commandment than I do, and I would not want you to violate your conscience.
Tyndale was a heretic. He believed in psychopannychism.
Tyndale was executed for heresy.
You falsely accused me of something I never did. You proved it was false by never being able to substantiate it no matter how many opportunities you were given to do so.
I didn’t bother to read your posts. All you’ll do is bear false witness, make errors, and make excuses and throw in kitchen sinks to the point that you look desperate.
“To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation.” (John Henry Newman, Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View).
Thanks for your tireless efforts in proving Newman right.
“Tyndale was a heretic”
You are a heretic AND a supporter of the murder of Bible translators.
“He believed in psychopannychism.”
There is no man alive that does not sin or make mistakes.
Tyndale was a man of great faith, perseverance, and love for Christ and His word.
I’ll happily break bread with a soul-sleep advocate any day of the week over an advocate of murdering followers of Christ for obeying His command to take His word to all nations and languages.
Mark 13:11
But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.
The mark of a true believer, one who truly follows in the footsteps of Christ, is persecution. This mark also shows who God speak through, rather than some phony clergymen with self-appointed authority.
God confirmed Tyndale’s work by answering his dying prayer and preserving the translation of scriptures that were his life’s work.
“I didn’t bother to read your posts.”
They are no longer for you.
For the record I will add yet another reason to reject the religion of vladimir998.
Not only does vladimir998 justify the murder of men for disagreeing with his religious tenets, he is part of a religion that adds to the word of God.
His religion fought viciously to stop people from being able to read the Bible for themselves, so that they would not be able to be like the commendable Bereans and search the scriptures to verify (or in this case prove false) the doctrines being put forth.
But vladimir998’s religion prompted him to post this nasty article and his many diatribes against true men of faith like Tyndale, whose murder vladimir998 justified repeatedly. But they ADD to the word of God which is a closed cannon.
Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
But since vladimir998’s religion does not recognize the canonicity of this final book of the Bible, his religion also commits the other apostate act of taking away from this book of prophecy.
It’s not surprising since the destruction of Babylon represents the coming end of the false Christian religious system of which the Church of Rome has become a part.
Also unsurprising is vladimir998’s doctrine that allows the whore of Babylon (false Christianity and false religion) to drink from a cup full of the blood of all the saints and prophets that false religion has been murdering since Cain killed Able.
Tyndale was a heretic according to even most Protestants. Irrefutable.
You bear false witness and make error after error and seemingly have no regard whatsoever for the truth, facts, accuracy or precision.
It would be one thing if you were merely a sinner and made mistakes - like others do - but you almost boast of your disregard of the truth, make excuses, attack Catholics when you have no argument to defend your errors, and consistently spread falsehoods against others.
Take a good look. That’s what you do.
You insist on living the part of so many Protestants is relying on dishonesty as Newman noted: “To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation.” (John Henry Newman, Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View).
Protestants de facto denouncing Tyndale as a heretic by his association with heresy:
Appendix: The Doctrine of “Soul Sleeping”
An investigation of this doctrine might be important because of the teaching of some Christian and some “cultish” sects that deny any personal conscious existence between death and resurrection. Among those who teach this doctrine are the Seventh Day Adventists, the Advent Christian Church, and Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The doctrine, stated simply, is as follows. “Following death, the soul of an individual sleeps until the resurrection.” Actually, such a belief should not be classified as heresy, but rather simply a doctrinal aberration from the teaching of Scripture.
Arguments for such a belief generally follow these principles of thinking:
1. Human existence involves a union of body and soul. Therefore, when the body ceases to function, the soul will not be able to function without it.
2. The use of the word “sleep” in the Authorized Version seems to imply soul-sleep and the cessation of consciousness. See 1 Corinthians 11:30, 15:51
3. The consciousness of the soul would be an unfair anticipation of the final state, which will only be determined at the last judgment.
Please remember that spirit can exist apart from body. How do the following verses teach this?
John 4:24
Hebrews 12:23
Revelation 6:9-11
It is clear that the word “sleep” was often used in reference to the death of the body, although the individual might be referred to as sleeping. How is this reality taught in John 11:11?
Acts 13:36?
Concerning the third point, what light do the following verses shed on that point?
1. John 5:24
2. 1 John 5:11,12
That there is continuing consciousness in the intermediate state between death and resurrection seems to be the teaching of Scripture. In Luke 23:39-43, Jesus was on the cross between two criminals. What transpired that seems to teach consciousness after death?
In response to this passage, Jehovah’s Witnesses say that Jesus was saying to the dying thief, I say unto you today, you shall be with me in paradise. This would be the only time in recorded history that a person speaking at a particular time would remind another person that as he was speaking, he was speaking “today.” It is much clearer to believe that Jesus was comforting the believing thief by telling him that on that very day, they would be together in paradise.
Two strong arguments come from the writings of Paul the Apostle. The first is in 2 Corinthians 5:8. See if you can find this argument yourself. Write it in the blank that follows.
The second argument is in Philippians 1:23. Paul is in jail facing execution. He is contemplating what it would mean to die. In 1:21, he says, “To live is Christ, to die is _______________.” What problems would present themselves if there is no consciousness after death?
Surely, benumbing “nothingness” is not superior to serving Christ here on earth!
Finally, there is the story of the rich man and Lazarus, Luke 16:19-31. What indications are there in this account that there is consciousness after death?
https://bible.org/seriespage/appendix-doctrine-soul-sleeping
Protestant apologists know Tyndale was in error:
What is soul sleep?
by Matt Slick
Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies that his soul “sleeps” until the time of the future resurrection. In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Seventh-day Adventists hold to this doctrine as do most conditionalists (those who say that the wicked are judged and don’t exist anymore). But the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach annihilation. This means that after death a person ceases to exist. At the future resurrection, they maintain that the soul is made again. Basically, it is a re-creation of the individual. The Seventh-day Adventists teach at the soul is simply inert and resides in the memory of God.
The primary verses used to support soul sleep are found in Ecclesiastes:
Eccl. 9:5, For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.”
Eccl. 12:7, “then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.”
Ecclesiastes must be understood in the context of its own commentary, which says at the opening of the book, “The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem. 2 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “Vanity of vanities! All is vanity.” 3 What advantage does man have in all his work which he does under the sun?” (Eccl. 1:1-3). The writer is telling us how things are from the human perspective, from “under the sun.” He is not telling us doctrinal statements about whether or not the soul continues after death. Besides, it’s a mistake to use the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament. It is the New Testament that sheds light on the Old Testament.
In the New Testament we see Paul say in 2 Cor. 5:8, “we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.” Paul is clearly telling us that when he dies, he will go and be with the Lord. Furthermore, at the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive. There was no soul sleep with them.
Luke 23:42–43 is the account of where Jesus was being crucified. Jesus speaks to the criminal on his right and says “Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Jesus was saying that he and the criminal would be together in paradise. Some Respond to this and say that Jesus was emphasizing that he was speaking right then and there, “today.” But, that position can only be held by those who presuppose a form of soul sleep. Of course, it was obvious that Jesus was speaking to him. But Jesus is saying to the criminal that he will be with Jesus in paradise today.
In addition when we look at the account of The Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, we clearly see Jesus using the imagery of consciousness after death. If soul sleep is true, what was Jesus doing relating the account of two individuals who were both conscious after their death?
In Revelation 6:10 we see the account of people being conscious after death and asking God, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” This is before the resurrection. Here gain we have another account of consciousness after physical death.
Therefore, the doctrine of soul sleep is incorrect. The soul continues on after death in a conscious state. The wicked face the judgment of God, and the Christians will dwell in His presence.
“Tyndale was a heretic according to even most Protestants. Irrefutable.”
You posted evidence to the contrary. I don’t even have to look it up to disprove you.
You quoted Bible.org in #236:
“Actually, such a belief should not be classified as heresy, but rather simply a doctrinal aberration from the teaching of Scripture.”
So, by your own standard, you’ve made false claims against me and Tyndale. By your standard for what bearing false witness means, you have been bearing false witness.
Now what was Joan of Arc “executed” for?
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