“I give the church money they give me an indulgence....it’s considered a sale everywhere except in the narrow Roman Catholic mind.”
Today I donated money to the Knights of Columbus. They’re collecting it to give aid to children with mental handicaps. They gave me a tootsie roll. It wasn’t a sale. It was a donation. By the way, I have no idea what size donation they wanted. I gave them more than they expected. It was a donation.
“I pay to see relics, view them correctly and the indulgence is granted.”
If you donate money to the upkeep of a church with relics you’ve donated money to the upkeep of a church with relics. And?
“it’s considered a sale everywhere except in the narrow Roman Catholic mind.”
Actually, no. I have met plenty of Protestants who understood that the Church was NOT authorizing the sale of indulgences, and I have even met some who understood that many people pursuing the indulgences were not buying them but donating money as part of a larger process for gaining the indulgence. After all the normal process included confession, a penance, a discussion with your priest to be released from your penance because you were going to do something in place of it (e.g. go on crusade, take a religious vow, donate money for the parish’s roof, whatever), and then a meeting with the indulgence preacher, listening to his instructions and the necessary steps for the indulgence and then carrying them out. If a man had no money to donate - and only some indulgences (a tiny minority in fact) involved a donation of money - you could receive the indulgence any way. Some Protestants I have met knew these things, but they were intelligent, educated people who were relatively well versed in history and actually cared about truth and accuracy.
“You know, if the Roman Catholic would admit what happened happened, then I’d have some respect. They made a mistake to raise money. It happens.”
I’d have some respect for the Protestant who would admit the truth: No pope, no council, ever in the history of the Church advocated or authorized the sale of indulgences. It was a clear violation of canon law. I would have more respect for the popes and councils of that time if they did a better job of disciplining those unscrupulous men who sold indulgences. But as it is, it looks like some Protestants on FR will insist that popes and councils did what no one has any record of them doing. As it is, there’s no way to go back in time and get popes and councils to better discipline unscrupulous men who sold indulgences. That situation wouldn’t get better until the Council of Trent.
“Remember, it’s usually not the crime, it’s the cover up that gets you and that’s what you’re trying to defend...the cover up. The spin.”
Except there’s no cover-up from us. You keep claiming one phrase is another. You keep claiming quotes say something they don’t say. You keep insisting something happened even though you have yet to present any evidence it did. I, on the other hand, have conclusively shown that one phrase is not another, that the quotes you used did not say what you falsely claimed they did, and that there is no evidence whatsoever that any pope, nor council, ever in the history of the Church advocated or authorized the sale of indulgences. Thus, if there’s spin, it’s all yours. And I think you know that’s the case too. I don’t even believe that you really believe what you’re saying. You’re just obeying your programming. You must obey your programming.
Today I donated money to the Knights of Columbus. They’re collecting it to give aid to children with mental handicaps. They gave me a tootsie roll. It wasn’t a sale. It was a donation. By the way, I have no idea what size donation they wanted. I gave them more than they expected. It was a donation.
Difference being, and this is key.....yours was a donation in that you expected nothing in return. That you received a piece of candy for the donation that was "way more than they expected" was from their generosity.
BTW...way to brag about your donation. Very humble. That will be your reward.
Regarding the money for indulgences....money was given with the expectation something was to be received in return. Hence a sale....except in the mind of Vlad.
Have you had any education in economics or business??
If a man had no money to donate - and only some indulgences (a tiny minority in fact) involved a donation of money - you could receive the indulgence any way.
Baloney.
You keep posting the programming note and it reminds me of MORE WINNING. LOL!.