The facts remain:
Tyndale was arrested for heresy.
Tyndale was convicted of heresy.
Tyndale was executed for heresy.
Tyndale was, in fact, a heretic.
You can bear false witness against me and it will change none of the facts. Denying that you made false witness against me doesn’t change the fact that you did. All anyone has to do is check the previous posts and they will see two things:
1) I did not say what you accuse me of saying or believing. Not even once.
2) When I asked you - repeatedly - to substantiate your false claims you failed each and every time to do so.
It’s sad that you would resort to bearing false witness - apparently because you’re desperate to avoid the facts - but no number of false claims against me changes any of the facts: Tyndale was arrested for heresy. Tyndale was convicted of heresy. Tyndale was executed for heresy. Tyndale was, in fact, a heretic.
Everything I just said was absolutely correct - and in fact everything I have said in this entire thread was absolutely correct. Those are the facts. Attacking me rather than dealing with the facts changes NOTHING.
Everything I have said can easily be substantiated by merely asking unlearned to substantiate his own false witness. Take this false claim of his as an example:
“You endorse, support, defend, and justify what you keep calling a “historical fact.””
By this unlearner means I “endorse, support, defend, and justify” Tyndale’s execution. I have repeatedly asked him to substantiate that claim. He never has and he can’t because I did no such thing. I have pointed this out before. If unlearner’s claim is true (and it isn’t) he should be able to prove it easily. He never does. He can’t. That’s his false witness and I think he knows exactly what he is doing.
But there’s more: “Tyndale was burned at the stake by men who accused him of committing a capital crime of heresy.”
Yes, he was, and he WAS IN FACT guilty of heresy. Psychopannychism is heresy and that was not his only heresy.
Unlearner, you will, once again, fail to substantiate your false claims. What will you do then? You’ll probably just go on and claim they’re true when they’re not.
“To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation.” (John Henry Newman, Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View).
“The facts remain:”
The facts are that you have stated your opinion and position on Tyndale (repeatedly). You justify torture and murder. I have repeatedly demonstrated this.
By every measure of honesty, everything you say about Tyndale can be applied to Joan of Arc and Thomas More.
But you refuse to admit so because you do not agree with your statements being applied to Joan of Arc or Thomas More. And the reason is obvious:
To you, Joan of Arc is a saint—a “patron saint of soldiers.” To you she can not be a heretic and a saint. She fought on the same side as (and alongside) Gilles de Rais, a man who sodomized and murdered little boys, and was also executed for witchcraft, like his compatriot, Joan of Arc, who was also charged and convicted as a heretic.
Joan of Arc’s trial and execution appear to be politically motivated, just as William Tyndale’s were. The same can not be said of Gilles de Rais.
There is a difference though between Tyndale and these other two who were also executed for the supposed crime of heresy. Tyndale never led anyone to be killed in either battle or in a court of law. Thomas More and Joan of Arc did. I have my doubts that all of the deaths at their hands were just, but God knows. Either way, I do not defend their executions as being just, nor their trials.
Did Thomas More hold the view that those who did not share his religious views should die for this? Did Joan of Arc? Do you?
Those who hold such views are heretics, apostates, and reprobates. Neither I nor William Tyndale hold the position that the Church should ever use it’s authority to cause anyone to be put to death for their theological views. While the New Testament affirms that the civil powers do not bear the sword in vain and that there still exist capital crimes, faulty religious doctrines are not among them.
And this is where we part ways. And you are highly offended that I draw attention to your heresy—the one in which you justify the trial and execution of William Tyndale.
It must infuriate you that the works of this great man of faith could not be stopped by all the fury of hell and the hellions that pursued him. If God was not in the Reformation, why did its opponents fail so miserably?
The religionists of Rome (and other places as well) used every sort of torture and murder to stamp out the Reformation movement, but it could not be stopped because God was in it.
The works of Tyndale, a martyr of the true faith, transformed the English language, and they have been preserved to this day. Though murdered for it, he succeeded in his great work of getting the Bible into the hands of common English-speaking people.
“You can bear false witness against me”
Never-mind that you protest against false witness so vehemently where it does not exist. It is fully acceptable to you that Tyndale was captured and “executed” via the Judas-like betrayal of Henry Phillips. Phillips is the worst kind of liar—one who lies while lying in wait to steal and kill. He pretended to be Tyndale’s friend. He also pretended to share his theology. Do you see the injustice of a treacherous man being paid money to lie and betray a supposed friend in order to have him killed?
You continue to cite John Henry Newman in your phony protests against falsehood. Yet, he was convicted of libel in a court of law.
We probably share the same sentiment regarding the trials against Joan of Arc, Thomas More, and John Henry Newman.
But you are unwilling to concede the possibility of William Tyndale being tried unfairly for his beliefs. No. You persist in justifying his murder for holding beliefs different from your own.
It is ironic that you appear so offended at what you claim to be bearing false witness against you. Yet you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that Tyndale was murdered by liars and men who really did bear false witness against him.
If you had admitted that Tyndale’s trial and execution were unjust, something probably most Catholics would do, you would not have wasted hours with your senseless accusations and feigned protestations. You’ve had limitless opportunities to disprove and dispel the conclusions I have fairly demonstrated against your false theology—your heresy. But you have not because you cling to your heretical views and refuse to admit the truth.
I have offered repeatedly to withdraw my charge of heresy against you for advocating the torture and murder of people who disagree with your theology, if you merely affirm that these things are and were wrong.
Why would any non-heretic refuse to admit this? Why would any professing Christian, Protestant or Catholic?
You are condemned by your own words and stubborn doctrinal error.
These are the facts.