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To: vladimir998

“Tyndale was executed for heresy. He was arrested for heresy, convicted of heresy.”

Charge number one: “First, he had maintained that faith alone justifies.”

False charge. Tyndale preached salvation by faith just as Paul preached.

“That’s bearing false witness.”

You and Tyndale’s accusers were and are bearing false witness against him.

And you advocate killing a man for disagreeing with your views.


271 posted on 10/24/2017 12:22:25 AM PDT by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: unlearner

“False charge. Tyndale preached salvation by faith just as Paul preached.”

St. Paul preached a gospel of grace - not “sola fide”. Nor did St. Paul preach a gospel of grace through “sola fide”.
You can see this in his use of the phrase “obedience of faith”.

https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2016/12/18/the-obedience-of-faith/

Even Protestants today are struggling with their own erroneous interpretation of St. Paul. Hence, the whole “New Perspective on Paul” movement.

“Wow. Tyndale sure seems to be hiding his heresy cleverly here. It almost sounds like he translated the passage you cited to have the same essential meaning as Douay-Rheims.”

First, since Tyndale’s translation work in no way figured into his trial it was probably viewed as irrelevant and could be read by none of his judges. Most likely they never even saw his translation unless he had copies with him when arrested and even then they couldn’t read it.

Second, Tyndale’s translation of the verse may have been perfectly correct, but his understanding and use of it, or the theological teaching behind it, would be the issue since he was a heretic and propagated heresy.

“It is in this sense that James and Paul do not contradict each other. Salvation is not earned. It is a gift. Those who teach working for salvation are heretics.”

Yes, and that’s why we don’t do it. But Protestants teach that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone and that is condemned by James as wrong (James 2:24). That’s why Luther, whom Tyndale so admired, threatened to “throw Jimmy into the stove” (i.e. burn the Letter of James because it did not agree with his theology).

[1] Fratres mei, nolite in personarum acceptione habere fidem Domini nostri Jesu Christi gloriae. [2] Etenim si introierit in conventum vestrum vir aureum annulum habens in veste candida, introierit autem et pauper in sordido habitu, [3] et intendatis in eum qui indutus est veste praeclara, et dixeritis ei : Tu sede hic bene : pauperi autem dicatis : Tu sta illic; aut sede sub scabello pedum meorum : [4] nonne judicatis apud vosmetipsos, et facti estis judices cogitationum iniquarum? [5] Audite, fratres mei dilectissimi : nonne Deus elegit pauperes in hoc mundo, divites in fide, et haeredes regni, quod repromisit Deus diligentibus se?

[6] vos autem exhonorastis pauperem. Nonne divites per potentiam opprimunt vos, et ipsi trahunt vos ad judicia? [7] nonne ipsi blasphemant bonum nomen, quod invocatum est super vos? [8] Si tamen legem perficitis regalem secundum Scripturas : Diliges proximum tuum sicut teipsum : bene facitis : [9] si autem personas accipitis, peccatum operamini, redarguti a lege quasi transgressores. [10] Quicumque autem totam legem servaverit, offendat autem in uno, factus est omnium reus.

[11] Qui enim dixit : Non moechaberis, dixit et : Non occides. Quod si non moechaberis, occides autem, factus es transgressor legis. [12] Sic loquimini, et sic facite sicut per legem libertatis incipientes judicari. [13] Judicium enim sine misericordia illi qui non fecit misericordiam : superexaltat autem misericordia judicium. [14] Quid proderit, fratres mei, si fidem quis dicat se habere, opera autem non habeat? numquid poterit fides salvare eum? [15] Si autem frater et soror nudi sint, et indigeant victu quotidiano,

[16] dicat autem aliquis ex vobis illis : Ite in pace, calefacimini et saturamini : non dederitis autem eis quae necessaria sunt corpori, quid proderit? [17] Sic et fides, si non habeat opera, mortua est in semetipsa. [18] Sed dicet quis : Tu fidem habes, et ego opera habeo : ostende mihi fidem tuam sine operibus : et ego ostendam tibi ex operibus fidem meam. [19] Tu credis quoniam unus est Deus : bene facis : et daemones credunt, et contremiscunt. [20] Vis autem scire, o homo inanis, quoniam fides sine operibus mortua est?

[21] Abraham pater noster nonne ex operibus justificatus est, offerens Isaac filium suum super altare? [22] Vides quoniam fides cooperabatur operibus illius : et ex operibus fides consummata est? [23] Et suppleta est Scriptura, dicens : Credidit Abraham Deo, et reputatum est illi ad justitiam, et amicus Dei appellatus est. [24] Videtis quoniam ex operibus justificatur homo, et non ex fide tantum? [25] Similiter et Rahab meretrix, nonne ex operibus justificata est, suscipiens nuntios, et alia via ejiciens?

[26] Sicut enim corpus sine spiritu mortuum est, ita et fides sine operibus mortua est.

Tyndale was a heretic. He was arrested for it, tried for it, and executed for it. Those are the facts. No amount of posting or outright falsehoods from any Protestant or non-Protestant can change those facts. Tyndale was a heretic.


273 posted on 10/24/2017 5:58:13 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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