Posted on 12/05/2017 7:37:41 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Maybe it’s just not as disappointing when atheists do it, because you don’t expect them to adhere to any moral standards besides whatever they feel like on that particular day.
In looking at their pictures, quite the faces of a couple of shysters. They’ll be taking a group for some $.
They’re emergent, liberal, sqishy, etc etc.
I suspect this is because his theology was wrapped up in the "Expect a Miracle" crowd that thinks the only thing that prevents miracles from happening is a lack of faith.
Look at the Book of Acts and the number of misfortunes that befell them. Was it because they didn't believe hard enough?
Sometimes misfortunes happen to godly people and God allows it because it enhances our "street cred" with others who suffer, furthers our empathy and forces a deeper reliance on the character of Jesus and not some superficial ATM version of Jesus.
Jesus promises "I will never leave you nor forsake you." He doesn't promise a bed of roses. In fact, the lives of many Christians are just the opposite and it is often to wring the self-reliance out of us.
To sum up: “My faith in God was shaken by the actions of humans. So, I decided to place my faith in humans.” And, THEY are supposed to be the rational thinkers?
..throw in Saddleback while you are at it...
The fundamental problem with Willow Creek and churches like it is that they believe they should bend the church into what pleases men, instead of molding men into what pleases Christ.
How "American people" so often behave?
How about just "people"?
What he wants to believe doesn’t change truth.
His faith was obviously shallow from the start.
Which is precisely what he has done. People let him down, not God, but he has turned his back on God and placed his faith in humanity. His own words.
Jesus told us we would have trouble in this world. We were never promised a world where innocent babies are never stillborn, or born completely normal. Good, faithful people are not being punished with a tragedy, nor is anyone exempt from such a tragedy. My family has personally lost eight babies to miscarriage or premature birth.
As for the man who beats his wife, he should have been disciplined and then educated by the church. And if that didn’t work, put out of the church. The failure is his, not God’s.
He has never believed in God or been a follower of Christ. He has always believed he is personally the fulfillment of truth. He believes God is to be judged by the lives of those who follow Him. Willow Creek taught him this apostasy. He has not strayed from it.
Well put.
/// “It would be easy to lose faith in God if it were based on faith in people.” ///
The bar to being a Christian is very low: acknowledgement that indeed you are a sinner, is part of it. The Church is composed of sinners, albeit sinners who are striving for better.
Neither I, nor any other Christians, are surprised when members go astray, sometimes in big ways. Disappointed, for sure, but never surprised.
What is it known as when someone’s actions are constantly a reaction to someone else’s actions? ... The
‘pastor’ lacked the first principle in faith: God IS.
“Beneath the appearance and the surfaces of people’s lives there was a level of suffering and brokenness for which my theology did not touch.”
Then clearly your “theology” was a heresy and not based in any way on the true theology. “Feel Good/God Wants Me Happy” “theology” has nothing to do with true theology.
If you lost your “faith” because you witnessed bad things happening to good people, or “good” people doing bad things, then you don’t understand true Christian faith at all.
Except it’s equally disappointing because it’s the same thing doing it in either case.
Well, the baby did live.
A common ailment amongst clergy and Christians is the belief, drive to fix all problems, fix all people. Fix ugly situations. Peace is accepting the exercise of free will in others. In other words, in the world we are placed in you must embrace the suck. This temporal existence is short and full of uncontrollable situations. Faith is understanding you have no power or control over any circumstance. You only control yourself.
This pastor and that staff member were married to the same wife? How does that work?
Yes, he's placed his faith in humanity. Good luck with that!
This comment of his is telling:
"Certain ways of thinking about ourselves and life and other people and these beliefs and mindsets, these narratives that have been indoctrinated into us can be very saboteurial into our journey of wanting to be at peace with ourselves and to live a life of liberation," he said.
If a person is truly trying to improve and to live as a good person, he's going to have to look directly at his imperfections and that's a hard thing to do. It would be much easier to accept one's imperfections as inevitable in order to have "inner peace" than to work at correcting them.
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