Strategies for Returning to the [Catholic] Church

CE.com ^ | 01-11-18 | James Day

[MHGinTN]

You opined, “We are all expected to learn God’s Truth and live according to His will.” So, if something Jesus says is interpreted by the Catholic Hierarchy to be taken literally even as it contradicts what GOD commanded throughout all their generations (the Hebrews, if you didn't catch it), are we to take the Catholiciism interpretation or rely on the body of God Breathed Scriptures and reject the Catholiciism interpretation? Tell us, Priest.

[ealgeone]

From the link provided by ADSUM.

This is Jimmy Akin attempting to explain the Universe of Discourse in defense of Roman Catholicism's "understanding" of the Scriptures.

When someone is speaking or writing, he has in mind a set of things (a universe) about which he is talking (discoursing). Anything that is part of that set is in his universe of discourse. Anything that is not part of that set is not.

For example, when many modern readers approach Romans 3:23, where Paul says "all have sinned," they assume he is referring to every member of the family of Adam. This is reinforced when they turn to Romans 3:10-"None is righteous, no not one." They wonder how Mary can fail to be a sinner.

The problem here is that the universe of discourse has been misidentified. It can't be the entire family of Adam. If it were, Jesus would be included, for we have quite a clear statement in Luke 3:23-38 that Jesus is a son of Adam, yet he was sinless (Heb.4:15).

Further, Paul is clear that there is a time in each person's life when he has not yet done any wrong. Paul comments on how Jacob and Esau, when they were yet unborn, "had done nothing either good or bad" (Rom. 9:11).

Thus Paul's universe of discourse is not the whole human race but a subset of it that includes exceptions for at least some individuals-such as those too young to commit personal sin and those who play a unique role in the history of salvation. Because of the passage's restricted universe of discourse, one cannot say that the text requires Mary to be included in the class Paul is talking about. If there is an exception for Jesus, the Second Adam, there can be an exception for Mary, the Second Eve.

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This is the type of torture the Roman Catholic has to apply to the Scriptures to justify their dogmas.

If Jimmy understood the simple matter of context then he wouldn't have to torture the Scriptures in such an abusive manner.

If Jimmy also

[imardmd1]

What is the difference?

[ealgeone]

To further illustrate how disingenuous Akin is he continues to perpetuate this more than once debunked claim on his website: It is the failure of the prohibition of the right of private judgment that has resulted in the over 20,000 Christian Protestant denominations listed in the Oxford University Press’s World Christian Encyclopedia.http://jimmyakin.com/library/practical-problems-of-sola-scriptura

If Akin were honest, which he's not, he'd also note the same source indicates there are 224 Roman Catholic denominations!

There's a whole lot more that can be used to illustrate how disingenuous he is....but this is a starter.

[ealgeone]

He very well could have.

That's about all the Roman Catholic can claim regarding the Immaculate Conception....woulda, coulda.

[Elsie]

So, where do you plan to spend eternity? In the same place as me? Interesting subject isn’t it?

Not if you're a Mormon without a current TR and in poor health!

[Elsie]

My internal spell check corrected that as I read it...

[Elsie]

Yes, once the facts do not support a Roman belief, there is a quick turn to "God could have done it that way."

Well; what else IS there?

[Elsie]

And of course Mary-unlike John-lived into the Christian age and became part of the Church.

GUESSWORK!!!

Mary simply drops off the radar after movin' in with John.

[ravenwolf]

What is the difference ?
...............,..........
Like I said, I was to blame.

[Elsie]

...over 20,000 Christian Protestant denominations listed in the Oxford University Press’s World Christian Encyclopedia.

REALLY??!!??

That would be quite a few pages.

I wonder what page THIS 'denomination' is listed on??

[ealgeone]

And the dude even misquotes what the Roman Catholics on these threads claim!

You gotta watch that squirrel church for sure.

[Elsie]

Not if you're a Mormon without a current TR and in poor health!

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HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.                                                        (Where the Father lives.  Only about 15% of Mormons have a VALID TR card.)

Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.     (Where approximately 85% 0f Mormons will end up)

Telestial - where unbelievers go

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The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 76

 

 92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever;
 93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever.
 94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
 95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

 

 

Those who inherit terrestrial glory will “receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.   https://www.lds.org/topics/kingdoms-of-glory?lang=eng  (click view more) 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Well...

...ain’t THIS special!!!

metro.co.uk/2018/01/17/new-mormon-leader-insists-church-loves-gays-7236407/

[Elsie]

 

Golly!

 

I wonder when GOD told THIS new revelation to a Living Prophet®???

 

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"All of this should be conveyed without having priesthood leaders focus upon intimate matters which are a part of husband and wife relationships. Skillful interviewing and counseling can occur without discussion of clinical details by placing firm responsibility on individual members of the Church to put their lives in order before exercising the privilege of entering a house of the Lord. The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it."
- Official Declaration of the First Presidency of the Church, January 5th, 1982

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"Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation-practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality...."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Pages 77-79, 81-82

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"Among the most common sexual sins our young people commit are necking and petting. Not only do these improper relations often lead to fornication, [unwed] pregnancy, and abortions - all ugly sins - but in and of themselves they are pernicious evils, and it is often difficult for youth to distinguish where one ends and another begins. They awaken lust and stir evil thoughts and sex desires. They are but parts of the whole family of related sins and indiscretions. Almost like twins, 'petting' and fornication are alike."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 65

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"Also far-reaching is the effect of the loss of chastity. Once given or taken or stolen it can never be regained. Even in a forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. If she has not cooperated and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a more favorable position. There is no condemnation where there is no voluntary participation. It is better to die in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, page 196

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"And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth." (Genesis 4:9-14.) That was true of murder. It is also true of illicit sex, which, of course, includes all petting, fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and all other perversions. The Lord may say to offenders, as He did to Cain, "What hast thou done?" The children thus conceived make damning charges against you; the companions who have been frustrated and violated condemn you; the body that has been defiled cries out against you; the spirit which has been dwarfed convicts you. You will have difficulty throughout the ages in totally forgiving yourself."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965. Often-used quote still used today in LDS seminary classes.

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"I do not find in the Bible the modern terms "petting" nor "homosexuality," yet I found numerous scriptures which forbade such acts under by whatever names they might be called. I could not find the term "homosexuality," but I did find numerous places where the Lord condemned such a practice with such vigor that even the death penalty was assessed."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, "Love Versus Lust", BYU Speech January 5, 1965

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"If adultery or fornication justified the death penalty in the old days, and still in Christ's day, is the sin any less today because the laws of the land do not assess the death penalty for it? Is the act less grievous? There must be a washing, a purging, a changing of attitudes, a correcting of appraisals, a strengthening toward self-mastery. There must be many prayers, and volumes of tears. There must be an inner conviction giving to the sin its full diabolical weight. There must be increased devotion and much thought and study. And this takes energy and time and often is accompanied with sore embarrassment, heavy deprivations and deep trials, even if indeed one is not excommunicated from the Church, losing all spiritual blessings."
-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, Page 155

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"How like the mistletoe is immorality. The killer plant starts with a sticky sweet berry. Little indiscretions are the berries -- indiscretions like sex thoughts sex discussions, passionate kissing, pornography. The leaves and little twigs are masturbation and necking and such, growing with every exercise. The full-grown plant is petting and sex looseness. It confounds, frustrates, and destroys like the parasite if it is not cut out and destroyed, for, in time it robs the tree, bleeds its life, and leaves it barren and dry; and, strangely enough, the parasite dies with its host."
- Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference Address, April 1, 1967.

https://exploringmormonism.com/boyd-k-packer-and-a-whole-new-sin/

 

[Elsie]

<http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/17/new-mormon-leader-insists-church-loves-gays-7236407/

[Mark17]

Not if you're a Mormon without a current TR and in poor health!

Oh my, Star Base Kolob lessons so early in the morning. Isn’t that where all those spirit babies live? 😆😀😝

[Elsie]

...as I read the conference talks by President Monson I noticed that there was nothing in them that really qualifies as prophecy.

 

 

https://zomarah.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/thomas-s-monson-a-seer-a-revelator-a-translator-and-a-prophet/

[Elsie]

I hope this 93 year old guy (Living Prophet©) actually does some prophesying!

[Elsie]

 

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In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)     http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng