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To: af_vet_1981; Elsie; ravenwolf; FourtySeven
af_vet_1981: It takes a further assertion, not interpreted by the scripture to interpret "Peter" as "stone" instead of "rock."

That is true, and I was not unaware of it as I laid the claim. One solid, unavoidable factor is that Jesus said He would build His church, and Paul proclaims it to the believers at Ephesus (many of whom are Gentiles)in his epistle written in 62 A.D.:

Eph 2:19-22 AV:

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints,
and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself
being the chief corner stone;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

So,this is a spiritual House of God, built with what? Peter, doubtless having read Paul's letter, explains this doctrine to the Diaspora in his first general epistle to them three years later. His conclusions are unarguable:

1 Pet 2:1-8 AV:

"Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies,
and all evil speakings,
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
To whom coming, as unto a living stone*, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones*, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone*,
elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient,
the stone* which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
And a stone* of stumbling, and a rock** of offence, even to them which stumble at the word,
being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Note: * = λίθος; ** = πέτρα

These letters will have gotten into the mainstream of circulated correspondence between church elders, and well known by John, who in writing his version of Jesus' life and teachings, made sure that Jesus' assignment of Simon as one of those living stones, a petros, and thus assuring Simon of it, was included in that story written much later than the other Gospels, about 90-94 A. D.

I think it is hard to imagine that, while influential in the first church of Jerusalem even with many concerts, that Peter or any of the other apostles imagined him(self) to be the central figure upon which it or any of the other autonomous church bodies were founded. Certainly neither Paul nor any of the Gentile churches he planted thought at all of any of the other Apostles, Peter included, were supernumaries.

Furthermore, I see no place in the NT were "Petros" was ever directly associated with the lexical equivalent of "rock." If there is one, find it and display it. The only human being to whom the meaning "petra" is attached is the Lord Jesus Christ, in either the OT (LXX) or the NT. So let's let go of the Peter positively papal promise and put it to bed as an unfulfilled hypothesis.

The above is a good and sufficient assertion that "Cephas" in context means "stone" as translated by Apostle John and interpreted by the KJV/AV panel of scholars, and nothing else.

af_vet_1981: The passage does not interpret Cephas as λίθον (a stone).

Neither does it prove that "Cephas" or "Petros" is not the lexical equivalent of "lithos," AFIK.

653 posted on 01/20/2018 1:26:48 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1
Corrections to Post 653L

"but chosen of God, and precious, 1Pe 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones*, . . ."

-----

". . . even with many concerts converts, . ."

-------->p? ". . . thought that all of or any of the other Apostles . . ."

Please note that Simon Peter was one of those foundational Apostle Stones, not the only one, and most certainly not the chief one.

Amen.

654 posted on 01/20/2018 2:59:32 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1
Corrections to Post 653:

"but chosen of God, and precious, 1Pe 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones*, . . ."

-----

". . . even with many concerts converts, . ."

-------->p? ". . . thought that all of or any of the other Apostles . . ."

Please note that Simon Peter was one of those foundational Apostle Stones, not the only one, and most certainly not the chief one.

Amen.

655 posted on 01/20/2018 2:59:58 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1
I love that passage in Ephesians, which, in addition to Matthew, also shows that the Messiah built His church on the Apostle Peter. In Ephesians, both the Messiah and Peter are stones. In Matthew, both the Messiah and Peter are rocks.

Of course the Messiah is always the greater stone or rock, who delegated His authority to the Apostle Peter, giving Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the power to bind and loose. The Apostle Peter is only there to do His will, but he is there, and the Messiah did choose him to be there.
656 posted on 01/20/2018 4:59:41 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: imardmd1; af_vet_1981; Elsie; FourtySeven

I don’t believe there is any disagreement that Jesus was
the chief corner stone, not from me anyway.

But was you also aware that since the scripture was writen
in greek why would the holy spirit first have it put down
as cephas?

One reason would be to make sure it was plain that Jesus
did call Simon Cephas which means rock.

It is there, is any one going to take lightly what Jesus
said?.


668 posted on 01/22/2018 12:04:34 AM PST by ravenwolf (Left lane tdrivers and tailgaters are the smallest peabrains in the world.)
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