Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Strategies for Returning to the [Catholic] Church
CE.com ^ | 01-11-18 | James Day

Posted on 01/11/2018 6:54:52 PM PST by Salvation

Strategies for Returning to the Church

James Day

Our world is a fallen world. The effects of sin seem to be suffocating us. The diabolical is running rampant, unleashed, playing with immortal souls as if puppets on a string. Pride continues to dominate; repentance for anything is deemed archaic, of little use to today’s enlightened thinking.

Certainly this is not the positive language one wants to hear at the outset of a new year, when expectations and resolutions are running high. But all is not really so dire: the diabolical and pervasive sin has not crushed the divine light. “My Immaculate Heart will triumph,” promises the Lady of Fatima. There is a reason the Church opens a new year honoring the Mother of God: obedience to accepting one’s mission in life is the most daunting — and exciting — prospect we face on this earth. We have a guidebook in how to do it through Mary’s fiat.

Perhaps over holiday festivities and the euphoria — and stress — of families coming together, some readers might have encountered resistance from relatives regarding the graces offered in entering the mystery of faith during this holy season. Whether it was avoidance from some in either attending Christmas Mass or praying before a Christmas dinner, such discomforts surely existed. While certainly everyone is different, with their own freedom and right to privacy, perhaps there are some of you readers whose own children—raised in the Catholic faith you so diligently sought to instill in them — want nothing to do with it anymore. It is to this element I wish to address.

In my own experience, generally speaking, I have found degrees of toleration from lapsed or non-Catholics regarding matters of the faith — they know the Catholic Church continues to play an enormous part in global affairs while recalling their own experiences either through schooling or parish life. I have found that while the pervading motif of the millennial generation is a general shunning towards organized religion and regular church attendance, there yet remains a desire for an experience of the transcendent. And that desire is the silver lining.

Unfortunately, committed Catholics are not always quite the fearless galvanized evangelizers that each one is called to be. Marveling that St. Francis de Sales converted 40,000 is usually met with a shrug: “Well, that’s why he’s a saint.” But that’s the precisely the mentality that needs to change.

A Jesuit once posed in a homily, “Listen to conversations. How long does it take before God is ever mentioned?” Out of not wanting to create controversy, God is never mentioned. When he is, or when the Church is mentioned, Catholics are immediately put on the defensive. We can stay silent, letting the Uber driver, for example, have his say about the occultish practice of Catholics (as I experienced recently), or we can defend Holy Mother Church, as we would defend our own mother, and begin a conversation. The faith is not part of the pie of life. It is the pie.

I have come to believe that, in this era, accommodation will not work. Appeasing the culture may seem like a conciliatory gesture, but those on the opposite side most probably will not respect such compromise—even if they do not agree with the position in question. In reading Paul Kengor’s new book, A Pope and a President, on President Reagan and Pope St. John Paul II’s battles against communism, the consistency in the Church’s long running condemnation of communism as far back as Pius IX is impressive. The Church may have apologized for grievous actions throughout its long history, but it has never apologized for being magnificent.

So, how to engage your lapsed love one on returning to the Church? After all, that is our sole duty—to grow into our authentic selves, made in the image of God, and safeguard our immortal souls and those of others towards eternal life. Remembering we can only extend an invitation, a proposal, respecting the freedom of others, here are some strategies:

I: Know Thyself

Be yourself a model of virtue.

Live the Gospel, avoiding hypocrisy, condemnation of others, descent into pettiness. If you consider yourself a Catholic first and desire others to feel that same zeal, your example is the best model. Just like Mary.

Avoid “preaching.”

Respectfully engage in conversation in whatever topic arises. Listen to the other person. Avoid shouting or screaming. Do not let a discussion become an argument or a fight. But know the teachings rather than relying on your own emotions in the heat of the moment.

Pray constantly (1 Thessalonians 5:16).

Read Scripture daily, particularly the Gospels, alone or with family. Have the Catechism handy. Always be reading a spiritual work. Your own edification will inevitably seep into your own worldview. Petition the Trinity for guidance. Ask saints for intercession. Call on the Blessed Mother multiple times a day.

Know your own spiritual story.

What were the integral moments for you in your faith formation? Where did God reveal Himself? Write your own spiritual autobiography in a way that you find creative and inspiring. “Know thyself” is not just an ancient Greek saying. It’s vital to one’s own development.

“Pray the Mass,” as St. Pius X instructs.

Throw your fears and pains onto the altar. Bow your head at the Consecration; respect the Real Presence of Jesus Christ.

II: Extend an Invitation

Know the story of your lapsed child or loved one.

“Communication is simply mutual understanding,” says Stephen R. Covey. You have to care about who they are, where they’ve been, and where they want to go — while you are called to evangelize, you cannot treat them as an agenda, a project. In this way, study Ignatian spirituality for insight on the discernment of spirits. You are always an unofficial spiritual director to someone!

Find common ground.

There are many launching points one can meet due to the richness of the Catholic faith. Unfortunately, many lapsed Catholics have a distorted or misinformed view of the faith, just as many in the Protestant and evangelical world have a Reformation-era concept of the papacy. Much time may be spent on clearing the cobwebs on the reality of the Catholic Church today. Yes, corruption and scandal and atrocities have weakened the moral authority of the Church. But there is a difference between human failings and the Church as founded by Christ handed to Saint Peter (Matthew 16:18). That needs to be made clear. (See Joseph Ratzinger, “Why I Am Still in the Church.”)

Nurture their interests.

“For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also” (Luke 12:34). Getting to know your loved one authentically and establishing common ground will offer new avenues of appreciation. Are they artists, musicians, poets, writers? Michelangelo, Gaudi, chant, or the great classics of literature offer beautiful immersive experiences in the Catholic worldview.

Pope Francis has been an inspiration for those of any background, through his environment work, Laudato Si, or his call for activism towards migrants, refugees, the disenfranchised.

Connect them with possibly like minded individuals who might continue the conversation, depending on their interests: educators, bioethicists, Father Spitzer’s Magis Institute on science, faith, and reason. Historical subjects on the veracity of Jesus: the Shroud of Turin, for example (see Ian Wilson’s The Shroud, among others).

Give your lapsed child or loved one Matthew Kelly’s Rediscover Catholicism or a similar book that perhaps impacted you. Rediscover appeals to the mainstream, ringing distant bells they would have remembered growing up Catholic. In many ways, that book is an appetizer to what awaits.

Bottom line: communicate the resources provided by so many apostolates—there is something for everyone. Many of those actively engaged in the mission of salvation, the mission of the Church, were once lapsed themselves. Just ask St. Augustine, Dorothy Day, or many great evangelizers in our day and age.

Invite your lapsed child or loved one to Confession.

It’s a challenging invitation. But you’ve at least put it out there. At the same time, do not let the graces of Confession become distorted. While one receives absolution, authentic penance comes when one’s life is turned around. So often the thought is that a few “Hail Marys” and “Our Fathers” is all the Church demands for conciliation. Actually, one must authentically set out determined to begin anew, a new person, transformed. Vinny Flynn’s 7 Secrets of Confession is a powerful little book for guidance.

Extend an invitation to Mass.

Bring an extra copy of Magnificat or a book with daily readings and give your loved one a copy. Sit up close. And then pray the Mass. Together.

Give your loved one Benedict XVI’s Jesus of Nazareth.

Along with the timelessness of the Scriptures themselves, this trilogy is written for people of our time to rediscover Christ. It is some of the most staggering spiritual reading you will encounter.

III: Going Forward

Three very simple, practical steps:

Happy New Year!



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; evangelization; prayer
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 601-620621-640641-660661-674 next last
To: ravenwolf
I do not believe Jesus needs any one interpreting what he said...

And yet you wrote:

For instance he most likely told the writer of John ...

641 posted on 01/18/2018 5:49:30 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 630 | View Replies]

To: aMorePerfectUnion
It was a name...


642 posted on 01/18/2018 5:53:10 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 638 | View Replies]

To: imardmd1; ravenwolf
... the Apostle John, writing the inspired words under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, translated/interpreted Cephas as stone, not rock.

Would you agree that the scripture interpreted Κηφᾶς (Cephas/Kephas) as Πέτρος (Peter) ?

It takes a further assertion, not interpreted by the scripture to interpret "Peter" as "stone" instead of "rock."

The passage does not interpret Cephas as λίθον (a stone).
643 posted on 01/18/2018 6:32:17 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 639 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Yes, the holy spirit not men who thinks of them selves as appointed by the holy spirit.


644 posted on 01/18/2018 7:26:49 PM PST by ravenwolf (Left lane tdrivers and tailgaters are the smallest peabrains in the world.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 641 | View Replies]

To: Zionist Conspirator
At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue: And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; And charged them that they should not make him known:

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.


Matthew, Catholic chapter twelve, Protestant verses one to thirty seven,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

645 posted on 01/18/2018 8:33:59 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 634 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_1981

Do you understand that the passage refers to the corruption of the covenant the Hebrews made with God in promising to follow the Law given at Mount Sinai, and the fruit of it, as Jesus told them, was corrupting faith (the fruit intended) as the channel by which Grace flows to believers? Jesus is the vine of Grace; the works based failure of Judaism then was rebuked and the Covenant replaced with a New Covenant. Do you see that conveyed in the passage you posted?


646 posted on 01/19/2018 6:02:50 AM PST by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 645 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_1981; imardmd1; ravenwolf
If I may interject:

Let's get's down to the "brass tacks" (or is it "tax" I've never known), and reduce this to as many facts, and as little personal opinion as possible.

In John 1:42, Jesus Himself says that Simon will be called "Κηφᾶς" (which is "Cephas" when it's written in Greek). Κηφᾶς, no one can deny, means only "rock".

Later, in the same passage, the Holy Spirit inspired the author to interpret "Κηφᾶς" as "Πέτρος ".

The big whoop imardmd1 (and others on this thread I guess) are making here stems from the fact that "Πέτρος" can mean both "rock" AND "stone".

So, the reasoning goes (apparently), since "Πέτρος" can mean "stone", and in Matt 16, only "Πέτρος" is used (in reference to Simon), and since "we" (meaning Protestants/anti-Catholic Christians) know that Simon/Peter wasn't called "rock" in Matt 16 (because of the word games played there), then here, in John 1:42, the Holy Spirit must be saying that "Πέτρος " here must also mean "little stone" just as it does in Matt 16 (again according to the word games they play with "Πέτρος" vs "πέτρα" there).

I say "word games" because what's really going on in Matt 16:18 is that Jesus isn't playing a "word game" but rather a "play on words", playing off "πέτρα" by calling Simon "Πέτρος". Why did He do that there (in Matt 16:18)? Whole books have been written on that subject to be sure but probably the best answer is that since Simon was a man, He had to use "Πέτρος" rather than "πέτρα" because "πέτρα" is a feminine noun.

Regardless of all of the above, the entire confusion generated by focusing on Matt 16:18 alone, in isolation of the rest of Scripture ignores John 1:42 (and others) where Jesus Himself says that Simon will be called "Κηφᾶς", which means "rock" and only "rock", and even though the Holy Spirit goes on to clarify that "Κηφᾶς" means "Πέτρος" it's immaterial, because "Πέτρος" can also mean "rock" in addition to "stone". In other words, all that's happening in John 1:42 is that the Holy Spirit is clarifying that the Aramaic word used by Jesus is the same for both Greek words.

Otherwise, we have the Holy Spirit contradicting Jesus! Because again, the word used by Jesus (Κηφᾶς) can only mean "rock". So the Holy Spirit, when He inspired the author of John, must have meant that "Πέτρος" means "rock" as well, and not just a "stone" (or "little stone" or "pebble"as those mentioned above allege about Matt 16:18).

This is what ravenwolf has been saying all along, I believe. And I believe he/she is right.

John 1:42 provides the key to interpreting what "Πέτρος" truly means in Matt 16:18. Not some tortured, twisted word game the Protestants want, but simply that Jesus was respecting Simon's gender in Matt 16:18 by calling him "Πέτρος" there, but his true name is "Κηφᾶς", which is "rock".

It's inescapable, unless we wish to believe that the Holy Spirit contradicted Jesus in John 1:42.

647 posted on 01/19/2018 7:07:20 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 643 | View Replies]

To: FourtySeven; All

Thanks for the explanation which is some what above
my head.

It is my simplicity which I have to depend on rather
than wisdom or education, one little simple scripture
can sometimes hold the key to understanding the intire
chapter.

I see you have the understanding to bring it all together.


648 posted on 01/19/2018 8:13:29 AM PST by ravenwolf (Left lane tdrivers and tailgaters are the smallest peabrains in the world.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 647 | View Replies]

To: FourtySeven
Let's get's down to the "brass tacks" (or is it "tax" I've never known),

Now you do...


Etymology[edit]

Unknown.[1] Earliest attestation in 1863 US, specifically Texas.[1] A theory is that it comes from the brass tacks in the counter of a hardware store or draper’s shop used to measure cloth in precise units (rather than holding one end to the nose and stretching out the arm to approximately one yard). Another possibility is the 19th century American practice of using brass tacks to spell out the initials of the deceased on the top of their coffin.

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/get_down_to_brass_tacks

649 posted on 01/20/2018 4:37:50 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 647 | View Replies]

To: FourtySeven
John 1:42 provides the key to interpreting what "Πέτρος" truly means in Matt 16:18.

 Isaiah 44:8
   Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses.
   Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 

650 posted on 01/20/2018 4:40:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 647 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Cool thanks.


651 posted on 01/20/2018 6:43:46 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 649 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Right, there are other verses than this that talk of God being the “Rock” of our Salvation, and the only one etc.

Of course it’s true that He is the source of all Salvation, and in this sense, He is this “Rock”. From Him all Salvation comes. That is what is meant here. Also, of course it means that there are none that are equal to, or “beside” Him.

There is no contradiction in believing that, and also believing that Simon was called “a rock” as well, a rock that Jesus built His Church upon. This notion is also in OT Scripture.

Isa 51:1-2, this describes Abraham as being the “rock from which you were hewn”.

Note that same word for “rock” in the Hebrew is the same word used in your reference (Isa 44:8).

That same word (H6697) is also used in Jer 21:13, where God speaks of “being against” the “rock” in the valley. Is God against Himself here? Of course not.

The point is it all depends on context, and how the word “rock” is used in which passage. In Jer 21:13 it’s used as just a natural rock, in Isa 44:8 it’s used to describe God and the source of salvation, in Isa 51:1-2 it’s used to describe Abraham as the source (earthly) of all Israelites, in a fleshly way.

This is all about the Hebrew word for “rock”. In the NT there’s no difference in this only in the language used (Greek). In the NT, in reference to Simon, the word for “rock” is used in reference to him, but of course it’s always understood that the only way he is “rock” is because of Jesus, because without Jesus Simon is nothing.

Just as Abraham is nothing without God. Just as the “rocks” of the valley are nothing compared to their Creator. All are subject to Him who is the “Rock of Salvation”, no other “rock” who is “beside” Him.

That’s just understood. That’s a given. And thus should be understood anytime anyone (any Catholic) refers to Simon Peter as “rock”. Simon is only “rock” relative to (subservient to) God, he is a “rock” from which God made him a “rock”, but God is the source of all “rock” as He is the source of everything. Simon is not a “rock” equal to God in other words, so Isa 44:8, and similar such verses that speak of God being a “rock”, isn’t violated here.


652 posted on 01/20/2018 7:12:54 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 650 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_1981; Elsie; ravenwolf; FourtySeven
af_vet_1981: It takes a further assertion, not interpreted by the scripture to interpret "Peter" as "stone" instead of "rock."

That is true, and I was not unaware of it as I laid the claim. One solid, unavoidable factor is that Jesus said He would build His church, and Paul proclaims it to the believers at Ephesus (many of whom are Gentiles)in his epistle written in 62 A.D.:

Eph 2:19-22 AV:

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints,
and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself
being the chief corner stone;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

So,this is a spiritual House of God, built with what? Peter, doubtless having read Paul's letter, explains this doctrine to the Diaspora in his first general epistle to them three years later. His conclusions are unarguable:

1 Pet 2:1-8 AV:

"Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies,
and all evil speakings,
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
To whom coming, as unto a living stone*, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones*, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone*,
elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient,
the stone* which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
And a stone* of stumbling, and a rock** of offence, even to them which stumble at the word,
being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Note: * = λίθος; ** = πέτρα

These letters will have gotten into the mainstream of circulated correspondence between church elders, and well known by John, who in writing his version of Jesus' life and teachings, made sure that Jesus' assignment of Simon as one of those living stones, a petros, and thus assuring Simon of it, was included in that story written much later than the other Gospels, about 90-94 A. D.

I think it is hard to imagine that, while influential in the first church of Jerusalem even with many concerts, that Peter or any of the other apostles imagined him(self) to be the central figure upon which it or any of the other autonomous church bodies were founded. Certainly neither Paul nor any of the Gentile churches he planted thought at all of any of the other Apostles, Peter included, were supernumaries.

Furthermore, I see no place in the NT were "Petros" was ever directly associated with the lexical equivalent of "rock." If there is one, find it and display it. The only human being to whom the meaning "petra" is attached is the Lord Jesus Christ, in either the OT (LXX) or the NT. So let's let go of the Peter positively papal promise and put it to bed as an unfulfilled hypothesis.

The above is a good and sufficient assertion that "Cephas" in context means "stone" as translated by Apostle John and interpreted by the KJV/AV panel of scholars, and nothing else.

af_vet_1981: The passage does not interpret Cephas as λίθον (a stone).

Neither does it prove that "Cephas" or "Petros" is not the lexical equivalent of "lithos," AFIK.

653 posted on 01/20/2018 1:26:48 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 643 | View Replies]

To: imardmd1
Corrections to Post 653L

"but chosen of God, and precious, 1Pe 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones*, . . ."

-----

". . . even with many concerts converts, . ."

-------->p? ". . . thought that all of or any of the other Apostles . . ."

Please note that Simon Peter was one of those foundational Apostle Stones, not the only one, and most certainly not the chief one.

Amen.

654 posted on 01/20/2018 2:59:32 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 653 | View Replies]

To: imardmd1
Corrections to Post 653:

"but chosen of God, and precious, 1Pe 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones*, . . ."

-----

". . . even with many concerts converts, . ."

-------->p? ". . . thought that all of or any of the other Apostles . . ."

Please note that Simon Peter was one of those foundational Apostle Stones, not the only one, and most certainly not the chief one.

Amen.

655 posted on 01/20/2018 2:59:58 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 653 | View Replies]

To: imardmd1
I love that passage in Ephesians, which, in addition to Matthew, also shows that the Messiah built His church on the Apostle Peter. In Ephesians, both the Messiah and Peter are stones. In Matthew, both the Messiah and Peter are rocks.

Of course the Messiah is always the greater stone or rock, who delegated His authority to the Apostle Peter, giving Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the power to bind and loose. The Apostle Peter is only there to do His will, but he is there, and the Messiah did choose him to be there.
656 posted on 01/20/2018 4:59:41 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 653 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_1981

Now your delusion time takes control. Too bad.


657 posted on 01/20/2018 5:56:55 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 656 | View Replies]

To: imardmd1; All

Joshua 4:1-9 - "What Do These Stones Mean?" - September 14, 2014 ...

gswels.org/multimedia-archive/joshua-41-9-stones-mean-september-14-2014/
Sep 13, 2014 - Joshua 4:1-9. When the whole nation had finished crossing the Jordan, the Lord said to Joshua,
“Choose twelve men from among the people, one from each tribe, and tell them to take up twelve stones
from the middle of the Jordan, from right where the priests are standing, and carry them over with you and ...

658 posted on 01/21/2018 4:16:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 655 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_1981
I love that passage in Ephesians, which, in addition to Matthew, also shows that the Messiah built His church on the Apostle Peter.


It's too bad that the ECFs didn't 'see' what you see.


As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the following Early Church Fathers promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1:

 • Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:

'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.

Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:

You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].

Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:

'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455

Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:

Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)

Cyril of Alexandria:

When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.

Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):

“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'

“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)

Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II):

Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.

659 posted on 01/21/2018 4:19:23 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 656 | View Replies]

To: Elsie; af_vet_1981

Elsie, do you not know that these same ECFs also speak of Peter himself being the Rock? Here are some examples.

St. Basil the Great (371 A.D.):

“The house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the foundations of which are on the holy mountains, for it is built upon the Apostles and prophets. One also of these mountains was Peter, upon which Rock the Lord promised to build His Church.” (Basil, T. i. Comment. in Esai. c. ii.).

“The soul of blessed Peter was called a lofty Rock ...” (Basil, Sermon 1 De Fide I.13).

St. John Chrysostom (387 A.D.):

“...and when I name Peter, I name that unbroken Rock, that firm foundation, the Great Apostle, the First of the disciples ...” (Chrysostom, T. ii. Hom. iii. de Paednit).

“Peter, the leader of the choir, that Mouth of the rest of the Apostles, that Head of the brotherhood, that one set over the entire universe, that Foundation of the Church.” (Chrysostom, In illud. hoc Scitote).

“Peter, ... that Pillar of the Church, the Buttress of the Faith, the Foundation of the Confession.” (Chrysostom, T. iii. Hom. de Dec. Mill. Talent)

St. Cyril of Alexandria (424 A.D.):

“He suffers no longer to be called Simon, exercising authoriy to rule over him already as having become His own. But by a title suitable to the thing, He changed his name into Peter, from the word petra (rock); for on him he was afterwards to found His Church.” (Cyril T. iv. Comm. in Joan.).

” ‘Blessed art thou ...,’ calling, I imagine, nothing else the Rock, in allusion to his name (Peter), but the immovable and stable faith of the disciple upon whom the Church of Christ is founded and fixed without danger of falling.” (Cyril, On the Holy Trinity).

“He promises to found the Church, assigning immovableness to it, as He is the Lord of strength, and over this He sets Peter as Shepherd.” (Cyril, Comm. on Matt., ad. loc.)

Origen (230-250 A.D.):

“See what the Lord said to Peter, that great foundation of the Church, and most solid Rock, upon which Christ founded the Church ...” (Origen, In Exodus. Hom. v. . 4 tom. ii).

“Look at [Peter], the great foundation of the Church, that most solid of rocks, upon whom Christ built the Church [Matt. 16:18]. And what does our Lord say to him? ‘Oh you of little faith,’ he says, ‘why do you doubt?’” [Matt. 14:31] (Homilies on Exodus 5:4 [A.D. 248]).

“Upon him (Peter), as on the earth, the Church was founded.” (Origen, Ep. ad. Rom. lib. v.c. 10, tom iv.)
“Peter, upon whom is built Christ’s Church, against which the gates of hell will not prevail.” (Origen, T. iv. In Joan. Tom. v.)

St. Hilary of Poitiers (356 A.D.)

“Blessed Simon who, after his confession of the Mystery, was set to be the foundation-stone of the Church and received the Keys of the Kingdom.” (Hilary, De Trinitate, 6:20).

“Peter, the first Confessor of the Son of God, the Foundation of the Church, ...” (Hilary, Tract in Ps. cxxxi.)

“And in truth Peter’s confession obtained a worthy recompense ....Oh! in thy designation by a new name, happy Foundation of the Church, and a Rock worthy of the building up of that which was to scatter the infernal laws of the gates of hell!” (Hilary, Comm. in Matt. c. xvi.)

St. Jerome (393 A.D.):

“Christ is not alone in being the Rock, for He granted to the Apostle Peter that he should be called ‘Rock’. “ (Jerome, Comm. on Jerimias 3:65).

“For what has Paul to do with Aristotle? Or Peter to do with Plato? For as the latter (Plato) was prince of philosophers, so was the former (Peter) prince of Apostles: on him the Lord’s Church was firmly founded, and neither rushing flood nor storm can shake it.”
(Jerome, Against the Pelagians 1:14a).

“’But,’ you [Jovinian] will say, ‘it was on Peter that the Church was founded’ [Matt. 16:18]. Well . . . one among the twelve is chosen to be their head in order to remove any occasion for division.” (Against Jovinian 1:26 [A.D. 393]).

“I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark on Noah will perish when the flood prevails” (Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396]).

St. Augustine (410 A.D.):

“These miserable wretches, refusing to acknowledge the Rock as Peter and to believe that the Church has received the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, have lost these very keys from their own hands.” (Augustine, Christian Combat).

“...Why! a faggot that is cut from the vine retains its shape. But what use is that shape if it is not living from the root? Come, brother, if you wish to be engrafted in the vine. It is grievous when we see you thus lying cut off. Number the bishops from the See of Peter. And, in that order of fathers, see whom succeeded whom. This is the Rock which the proud gates of hades do not conquer. All who rejoice in peace, only judge truly.” —St. Augustine, Psalmus Contra Pertem Donati.

Source: http://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/pope_peter_rock.php


660 posted on 01/21/2018 11:32:12 AM PST by rwa265
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 659 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 601-620621-640641-660661-674 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson