...A Concern for the Protestant “Solos”: Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 06-07-18 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Elsie]

Considering most of what went on between Christ and His disciples wasn’t recorded, how do you figure you can say that you know that to be true?

Well; the Magisterium says that the pope Rome now has was selected by GOD; so why so many do not follow what he says?

[metmom]

Anything to diminish Scripture and place a church above it.

[Elsie]

Christ never told his disciples to write anything, he told them to preach.

IF that is so; why did the Catholic Church ever compile those various dusty writings into a book?

[Elsie]

My Church History class was a long time ago. :)

True; but most of us STILL have the main textbook and use it from time to time to look things up that we've misremembered over the years.

[metmom]

What is it with all the removed posts belonging to Catholics?

Are they trying to get the thread locked again?

[Elsie]

Give it up.

The pig must WANT lipstick on it first.

[Elsie]

You can call a cat a dog all day long, but it doesn’t stop it from being a cat.

How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg?
Four.
Saying that a tail is a leg doesn't make it a leg.

--Abraham Lincoln

[metmom]

.No, beware of those who say we can't understand the scriptures because they can't understand the scriptures...

OUCH!!!!!

[metmom]

Funny thing....NOT IN THE FIRST CENTURY!!! Unless you think some major portion of the population was literate?

You don't know the literacy rates during the first century. the only guesses are speculation at best.

And even if there were not a lot, those that were literate would most certainly be interested in a copy of the Scripture themselves.

It is absolutely mind boggling the lengths Catholics will go to diminish the value and integrity of the God breathed, Holy spirit inspired word of God and subjugate it to their church, the corrupt, immoral organization that it is.

[Elsie]

I made very clear early on that Christ never instructed his disciples to reduce his teachings to writing.

HMMMmmm...

Jesus has made it 'very clear' that HE relied 100% or so on what had been WRITTEN in the past.  Strange that He'd leave the impression that His teachings should be transmitted orally only.

 

NIV Matthew 4:1-11
1. Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.
3. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4. Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "
5. Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
6. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "`He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "
7. Jesus answered him, "It is also written: `Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' "
8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10. Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
11. Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

NIV Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Matthew 21:13
"It is written," he said to them, "`My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a `den of robbers.' "

NIV Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him.

NIV Matthew 26:31
Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'

NIV Mark 7:6-7
6. He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

NIV Mark 9:11-13
11. And they asked him, "Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"
12. Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
13. But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him."

NIV Mark 11:17
And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written: "`My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations' ? But you have made it `a den of robbers.' "

NIV Mark 14:27
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: "`I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.'

NIV Luke 4:17-19
17. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18. "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
19. to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

NIV Luke 7:27
This is the one about whom it is written: "`I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'

NIV Luke 10:26
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

NIV Luke 18:31-33
31. Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
32. He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
33. On the third day he will rise again."

NIV Luke 20:17-18
17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written: "`The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone ' ?
18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."

NIV Luke 21:22
For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

NIV Luke 22:37
It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

NIV Luke 24:44-47
44. He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."
45. Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.
46. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
47. and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

NIV John 2:17
His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."

 

NIV John 6:31
Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "

NIV John 6:45
It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.

NIV John 12:14-16
14. Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
15. "Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion; see, your king is coming, seated on a donkey's colt."
16. At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.

NIV John 15:25
But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: `They hated me without reason.'

NIV John 20:30-31
30. Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.
31. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

 

[metmom]

The NT is all true and Rome doesn’t “disobey” it.

Absolute balderdash.

Matthew 23:1-12 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

[metmom]

People have ALWAYS places a high value on literacy.

And they took advantage of it when they could.

[Elsie]

A REAL ankle-nipper usually responds to a good kicking across the yard...

[Elsie]

Youth?!!

Hell; our ADULTS don't rate very high in this regard either!

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called. The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth (CCC 1250).”

Chapter and verse in Scripture please?

No babies are said to be baptized in the NT.

[af_vet_1981]

There was no prescription for, nor proscription against, writing scripture. The Messiah gave Peter and the other apostles the power to bind and loose. They evidently chose, through scribes or in their own hand (Paul) to write the gospels and epistles. There is an internal reference in Revelation just prior to John's authorship reference.

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses three to four,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James



You remain clueless.

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Galatians, Catholic chapter five, Protestant verses thirteen to twenty six,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

When did Paul write his letters to the believers in those town where he established bodies of believers? When was The Revelation of John WRITTEN under Jesus's instruction? What was happening to the letters Paul and other Disciples were writing to fellow believers?

Every letter is undated and scholars propose various timelines (and do not all agree). Letters were shared and circulated because there was one holy catholic and apostolic Church. There are internal references to letters which did not apparently survive the passage of time and so are not included in the Canon (one to Corinthians, one from Laodicea)

There is only one body.

And of course, regardless of uncertainty about dates or even about exact authorship, the Catholic Church affirms that all texts of the Bible are divinely inspired and teach “solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation.” (Vatican II, Dei Verbum, 11)

Date composed	Book	Author


51-52 AD	1 and 2 Thess	Paul
50-55	early version of Gospel of Mt in Aramaic	Matthew
50-60	Jas	James
54	Gal	Paul
57	1 Cor	Paul
57-58	2 Cor	Paul
57-58	Rom	Paul
60-70	Mk	Mark
62?	Phil	Paul
62	Col, Philem, Eph	Paul
62-70	Lk	Luke
63	Acts	Luke
64?	1 Pet	Peter
64	2 Pet	Peter?
65	1 Tim and Tit	Paul
65?	Heb	Paul?
66	2 Tim	Paul
68-70	Mt	Matthew
70?	Jude	Jude Thaddeus
85-95	Rev	John
95-100	1,2, and 3 Jn	John
98-100	Jn	John
(This information is mainly drawn from the Navarre Bible, “Introduction to the Books of the New Testament”)

[Elsie]

He did indeed sir. I am REALLY into YOPIOS, and I am my own Pope.

Many FR Catholics must be as well; since they have very little (if any) respect for the pope that Rome duly elected to sit in "Peter's seat".

[metmom]

Agreed.

It seems to be part of the mentality that people are not going to behave unless forced to by an outside force. That they aren't responsible enough to live an upright and moral life without someone watching over them and setting the boundaries for them.

As someone posted recently, and I think it was bb, Catholicism doesn't trust people to live right on their own.

[Elsie]

The one thing that also never ceases to amaze me, is that we believe once saved, always saved, but many seem to think, that means it is ok to commit mortal sins galore, cuz, after all, you are saved.

Damned PROTS!!!

---

The one thing that also never ceases to amaze me, is that Catholics believe that means it is ok to commit mortal sins galore, cuz, after all, you have a fella in a box that will FORGIVE you of them; as long as you say the prescribed number of Hail Marys and count the requisite number of beads.

[metmom]

The one thing that also never ceases to amaze me, is that we believe once saved, always saved, but many seem to think, that means it is ok to commit mortal sins galore, cuz, after all, you are saved. What rubbish. I think they say it, cuz that is how they would do it.

Agreed.

It seems to be part of the mentality that people are not going to behave unless forced to by an outside force. That they aren't responsible enough to live an upright and moral life without someone watching over them and setting the boundaries for them.

As someone posted recently, and I think it was bb, Catholicism doesn't trust people to live right on their own.

As if the Roman church is any example of right living before God.

What hubris that they should set themselves up as some sort of overseer for other people's behavior when they are such a train reck themselves. Talk about the fox guarding the hen house.